War in Ukraine

[LouderVol]

1: Agree. We helped disarm them and make it easy for an invasion. Plus, we denied them military aid outside of field kitchens and sleeping bags for years.

2: Partially agree, but not "give" them anything. They can pay for it even if it is long term loans or guarantees.

3: No. What purpose would that serve?

4: Hell no. You still just aren't getting the cause and effect of putting more NATO bases on the Russian border. They keep reacting to it in forceful ways.

Georgia started talking about NATO membership... got invaded.

Ukraine started making noise about it... there goes Crimea...

Starts talking about it again... there goes Donbass...

And don't give me the Finland example. They only requested to join after Ukraine got invaded.

Maybe NATO needs to stop moving east. This is not the same Russia of the Cold War with global domination on its mind. Treat them like an equal and see what happens. Continue treating them with disdain and watch what happens.

its much more cause and effect to say:

Georgia had tried working towards NATO membership, and after it was shot down by NATO, Russia invaded.
Ukraine had tried working towards NATO membership, and after it was shot down by NATO, Russia invaded.

you are leaving out a key piece of the puzzle. You argument doesn't fit. why would Finland AND Sweden joining during the war on Ukraine be exceptions to Russian justification? a more consistent argument is based purely on acceptance into NATO.

Putin talked all sorts of crap about Finland joining, making the same noises he did about Ukraine and Georgia. but after they joined he didn't say anything, and has even demilitarized his border with Finland.

Putin isn't lashing out out of anger or justification; he is lashing out like a bully. only going after the weak/non-NATO nations. We gave him a list: Georgia and Ukraine aren't protected, once he had that information he could invade with impunity.

 

[BeardedVol]

Show me the rhetoric of Russia threatening Finland and Sweden before they applied for membership...

I'll wait.

2015:

Sweden and Finland’s awkward NATO tango

Moscow mutters warnings as Nordic pair edges closer to the alliance.

www.politico.eu

2018:

Russia threatens counter-measures if Finland and Sweden join Nato

The Russian Defence Minister has strongly criticised Finland and Sweden's closer military co-operation with Nato countries.

yle.fi

I'd also remind you that Russia signed the NATO Founding act:

 

[LSU-SIU]

Seems Zelenskyy has done a 180 after Trump paused Aid.

We'll see.

Okay a few days ago the Ukrainians will never sign another agreement with Russia, but today they are open to it? This isn't what they were saying yesterday, watch Finnish President talking to member nations of the EU with the comedian. (I posted it yesterday) He said the EU could never trust the Russians again with an agreement.

"He is offering a truce"... that isn't a long-term solution nor a peace agreement. He really isn't saying anything in the open letter.

 

[Grand Vol]

its much more cause and effect to say:

Georgia had tried working towards NATO membership, and after it was shot down by NATO, Russia invaded.
Ukraine had tried working towards NATO membership, and after it was shot down by NATO, Russia invaded.

you are leaving out a key piece of the puzzle. You argument doesn't fit. why would Finland AND Sweden joining during the war on Ukraine be exceptions to Russian justification? a more consistent argument is based purely on acceptance into NATO.

Putin talked all sorts of crap about Finland joining, making the same noises he did about Ukraine and Georgia. but after they joined he didn't say anything, and has even demilitarized his border with Finland.

Putin isn't lashing out out of anger or justification; he is lashing out like a bully. only going after the weak/non-NATO nations. We gave him a list: Georgia and Ukraine aren't protected, once he had that information he could invade with impunity.

Russia invaded Georgia after the Bucharest Conference and before NATO put the brakes on the membership drive in 2008.

Didn't invade Ukraine for a lot longer.

 

[LouderVol]

Russia invaded Georgia after the Bucharest Conference and before NATO put the brakes on the membership drive in 2008.

Didn't invade Ukraine for a lot longer.

I am pretty sure it was Germany and France saying no to both Ukraine in 2005 and Georgia in 2008. they had always been against either joining. Georgia didn't have a MAP that fell thru after the invasion. they were in the same spot before and after the invasion, not in NATO, not on the active path to join NATO.

Putin sees a country get the red light from NATO, even if they haven't fully stopped yet, and sees it as reason to attack. Putin sees a country get the green light from NATO, even if they haven't joined yet, and Putin doesn't attack.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Ukraine's Front 'Could Collapse In Six Months' Without US Support, Officials Fear as Russian Troops Launch Wave Of 'suicidal missions' In Scramble For Territory After Trump Military Aid Bombshell​

Ukraine's front could collapse within just six months, officials fear, as Russian forces are dispatching masses of troops across the Dnipro river on high-casualty missions in a suicidal attempt to gain Ukrainian territory for future peace negotiations.

Oleksandr Prokudin, the governor of Kherson region in Ukraine, said that Vladimir Putin's army was trying to cross the key river in four locations to bolster their claim over the entire oblast, as Trump last night stunned NATO allies by pausing US military aid to Ukraine in an effort to pile pressure on Volodymyr Zelensky to end the war on his terms.

Prokudin told the Guardian: 'We heard from our intelligence, that the Russian deputy commander told troops in the area that they had to force the river at any cost, though not all the soldiers are willing to do that.'

'The Russians completely understand it is a suicidal mission,' the governor said, claiming that documents recovered from fallen Russian soldiers showed the casualties ranged from new recruits to battle-hardened soldiers who have fought for over two years.


Servicemen of the 24th Mechanized Brigade, named after King Danylo, of the Ukrainian Armed Forces fire an M109 Paladin self-propelled howitzer towards Russian troops in a front line near the town of Chasiv Yar in Ukraine February 28, 2025

The site of a damaged residential building following a Russian drone attack amid the ongoing Russian invasion in Kharkiv, Ukraine, March 2 2025


Firefighters work to control a fire in a location given as Odesa, Ukraine, after a Russian drone attack damaged energy infrastructure in Ukraine's Black Sea port of Odesa, triggering power cuts in the city and knocking out heating systems, according to local officials, in this handout image released on March 4, 2025


An emergency psychologist assists a resident who reacts at the site of Russian drone strike, amid Russia's attack on Ukraine, in Odesa, Ukraine in this handout picture released March 4, 2025

Ukraine's front 'could collapse in six months' without US support

Ukraine's front could collapse within just six months, officials fear, as Russian forces are dispatching masses of troops across the Dnipro river on 'suicidal' missions

www.dailymail.co.uk

The key Ukraine questions after White House showdown

 

[LouderVol]

6 months? that is hardly eyebrow raising to me. or reason to keep funding it. this is looking like another Afghanistan multi year long financial boondoggle.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I've lived there for years, been stationed all over and was permanently in Germany for over 2 years. Total time if I added it up 4-5 years but some assignments were broken up as temporary. Some places I was never was there even if you see pictures of me there.

Europe was always going to fail, the neocons put carrots in front of them i.e. collapse Russia. There are plans within plans now.

(see my comments about the baltics over the last year)
Baltic states 'very unhappy' after UK fails to invite leaders to Ukraine summit

Predicting all this (Ukraine) was the easy part, how it (Europe) plays out now... not so much. Chaos.

The Baltics have been targeted for termination, they should be taking action... like I said in the Fall I believe.

Then you know everybody has skin in the game. I too have been there as well and might as well add Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, as well as Czechoslovakia and a few others not to mention. Some before the wall came down and some after it came down. My take is that they fight to keep their present lifestyle and not living under the thumb of Russia.
"Some places I was never was there even if you see pictures of me there." (I read between the lines.) Old Russia alignment ties are dying off more so than US. Land and way of life are precious commodities worth defending. Russia has too much to lose.

 

[hog88]

Then you know everybody has skin in the game. I too have been there as well and might as well add Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, as well as Czechoslovakia and a few others not to mention. Some before the wall came down and some after it came down. My take is that they fight to keep their present lifestyle and not living under the thumb of Russia.
"Some places I was never was there even if you see pictures of me there." (I read between the lines.) Old Russia alignment ties are dying off more so than US. Land and way of life are precious commodities worth defending. Russia has too much to lose.

Jethro, were you a double naught spy?

 

[Sudden Impact]

Jethro, were you a double naught spy?

Appears you pick and choose your battles, recklessly. No, Mr. Bodine I was not. Little bit more complicated than that. Service to this country still means something and is more than a simplistic explanation of which you might not comprehend or understand. Enough.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Then you know everybody has skin in the game. I too have been there as well and might as well add Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, as well as Czechoslovakia and a few others not to mention. Some before the wall came down and some after it came down. My take is that they fight to keep their present lifestyle and not living under the thumb of Russia.
"Some places I was never was there even if you see pictures of me there." (I read between the lines.) Old Russia alignment ties are dying off more so than US. Land and way of life are precious commodities worth defending. Russia has too much to lose.

They're all in but they don't have to worry about the Russians, each other is a different matter.

Europeans will go back to what they do best i.e. war, but it won't be with Russia. The Baltics are the ones that should be immediately worried, they've been targeted for termination. Heck, they might have to go back to using swords. Going to be like weaklings going at it for a few decades.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

6 months? that is hardly eyebrow raising to me. or reason to keep funding it. this is looking like another Afghanistan multi year long financial boondoggle.

Yippie!
The six months is almost hard to believe. This tells me that Russia's military is complete dog$hit (of course we have known that for years now) and that delaying the inevitable in this conflict makes us look dumber by the minute.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yippie!
The six months is almost hard to believe. This tells me that Russia's military is complete dog$hit (of course we have known that for years now) and that delaying the inevitable in this conflict makes us look dumber by the minute.

The first priority is not to overextend the front i.e. offensive attacks expose yourself to the counter. This is more about depleting meat and moving the line, what will have is the Ukrainians will be forced to retreat faster.

Military briefing: Ukraine to run out of US weapons by summer

Without US support, “the front won’t collapse, but Russia is going to keep advancing”, said Narozhny.

War in Ukraine

Sept 2022

The war in the Ukraine is over and has been. The economic war with Europe is at the beginning stage. What goes on in the Ukraine is fairly meaningless, just how many are killed and what the size of the parking lot is.

Steady as she goes...

 

[KB5252]

I've got some questions here, I don't have the knowledge but it may clear some things up.

What are the obstacles to Russian membership in NATO? What are the perceived drawbacks?

I believe I've seen it mentioned before but can't remember, I know Russia would like to be a member, what are the reasons for it to be considered taboo.

What if somehow you could get Russia in in exchange for prior borders to be reinstated and all countries that want it given entry?

Could this be a feasible way of achieving a long (ish) era of peace?

 

[McDad]

Yippie!
The six months is almost hard to believe. This tells me that Russia's military is complete dog$hit (of course we have known that for years now) and that delaying the inevitable in this conflict makes us look dumber by the minute.

Russia's military impotence is why I wonder if their nuclear missiles are still viable. If those weapons look similar to their conventional war capabilities, they are a paper tiger.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Chef's kiss

“Allies”

There like those friends who are always broke when you go out that always will get you the next time, but there’s never a next time.

Name 1 country that takes money from their citizens and sends it to the United States?

Unfortunately they will be back.

 

[McDad]

I've got some questions here, I don't have the knowledge but it may clear some things up.

What are the obstacles to Russian membership in NATO? What are the perceived drawbacks?

I believe I've seen it mentioned before but can't remember, I know Russia would like to be a member, what are the reasons for it to be considered taboo.

What if somehow you could get Russia in in exchange for prior borders to be reinstated and all countries that want it given entry?

Could this be a feasible way of achieving a long (ish) era of peace?

wondering the same.

 

[Sandman 423]

A major propagandist US and European media misinformation tactic in “reporting” on this press conference was (and still is) to edit out the very obvious words and deeds of Z that occurred before the little clips they want to spin.

Holy Cliffsnotes Batman!!!

 

[LSU-SIU]

I've got some questions here, I don't have the knowledge but it may clear some things up.

What are the obstacles to Russian membership in NATO? What are the perceived drawbacks?

I believe I've seen it mentioned before but can't remember, I know Russia would like to be a member, what are the reasons for it to be considered taboo.

What if somehow you could get Russia in in exchange for prior borders to be reinstated and all countries that want it given entry?

Could this be a feasible way of achieving a long (ish) era of peace?

That's not going to help as Europe has 101 problems but Russia ain't one of them. Russia is solving the glitch. The issue for the Baltic States is a different matter. The U.S. can setup agreementsand cooperation without NATO, it might be there is no U.S. in NATO fairly soon so there is that.

They're in panic and it has nothing to do with Russia.

I know Russia would like to be a member

I can't think of one reason why. All the friends that have been backstabbing one another? Friends like these who needs enemies?

 

[KB5252]

That's not going to help as Europe has 101 problems but Russia ain't one of them. Russia is solving the glitch. The issue for the Baltic States is a different matter. The U.S. can setup agreementsand cooperation without NATO, it might be there is no U.S. in NATO fairly soon so there is that.

They're in panic and it has nothing to do with Russia.

Without binding security assurances there is no reason for Russia to want in. That is effectively what NATO secures. European issues are no doubt a problem but tides can change. Creating something new only creates another rift in European politics, not what we should be attempting to accomplish here.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Without binding security assurances there is no reason for Russia to want in. That is effectively what NATO secures. European issues are no doubt a problem but tides can change. Creating something new only creates another rift in European politics, not what we should be attempting to accomplish here.

If I were Europeans I would be like.... (the Baltics should move as a group... time is not on their side here)

Of course they're all so weak it going to be like rabbits fighting.

 

[MontyPython]

Appears you pick and choose your battles, recklessly. No, Mr. Bodine I was not. Little bit more complicated than that. Service to this country still means something and is more than a simplistic explanation of which you might not comprehend or understand. Enough.

Hogg is a tar baby of epic ignorance.

 

[hog88]

I've got some questions here, I don't have the knowledge but it may clear some things up.

What are the obstacles to Russian membership in NATO? What are the perceived drawbacks?

I believe I've seen it mentioned before but can't remember, I know Russia would like to be a member, what are the reasons for it to be considered taboo.

What if somehow you could get Russia in in exchange for prior borders to be reinstated and all countries that want it given entry?

Could this be a feasible way of achieving a long (ish) era of peace?

Governments must have an external enemy to galvanize their people, otherwise the people will start to look at their government for what it truly is. Their real enemy.

 

[hog88]

Hogg is a tar baby of epic ignorance.

Explain to use how national debt is a good thing and nothing to be concerned about.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Russia's military impotence is why I wonder if their nuclear missiles are still viable. If those weapons look similar to their conventional war capabilities, they are a paper tiger.

Well

They would probably be stupid enough to use a faulty one killing a bunch of innocent people. Let's hope that some righteous $hit happens soon.