War in Ukraine

If I were Europeans I would be like.... (the Baltics should move as a group... time is not on their side here)

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Of course they're all so weak it going to be like rabbits fighting.
Expand on the Baltics should move.......... I'm trying to understand the dynamics here.

Even though, in some cases I find you batshat crazy I don't think you ignorant and I like to hear different points of view while I'm forming my view.
 
Expand on the Baltics should move.......... I'm trying to understand the dynamics here.

Even though, in some cases I find you batshat crazy I don't think you ignorant and I like to hear different points of view while I'm forming my view.

They're the smallest of the group and they are more lined up with the right side thinking, which is why the U.S./EU has been threatening them and sanctioning them. Many of them are isolated as well. They're expendable like the Ukraine more so as the rest of the EU only brought them in to exploit them.

Something I have spoken about for 6-8 months, which is why they're not being invited to all the friend talks now (see my post from yesterday I think it was with an article)

Europe is on deck but the Eastern Europe (Georgia, Hungry, Lithuania, Slovakia, Bulgaria, etc) is the weakest of the weak.

US sanctions the founder of Georgia's ruling political party
 
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I've got some questions here, I don't have the knowledge but it may clear some things up.

What are the obstacles to Russian membership in NATO? What are the perceived drawbacks?

I believe I've seen it mentioned before but can't remember, I know Russia would like to be a member, what are the reasons for it to be considered taboo.

What if somehow you could get Russia in in exchange for prior borders to be reinstated and all countries that want it given entry?

Could this be a feasible way of achieving a long (ish) era of peace?
Getting approved by everyone/enough people would be the biggest obstacle. there is a checklist as well, but I am assuming that could be worked through. also you are generally not "allowed" in if you have ongoing conflicts. sometimes that is broadly defined, other times its very narrow.

Draw backs would be the internal division. as a member they would have some veto powers. and there is some debate about how Article 5 would play out between two NATO members. There was some debate years ago about nations going to war inside of NATO and how the rest would/should react. always tough to prove who actually shot first, and what happens when the victim of an attack is actually the first to fire.
 
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“Allies”

There like those friends who are always broke when you go out that always will get you the next time, but there’s never a next time.

Name 1 country that takes money from their citizens and sends it to the United States?

Unfortunately they will be back.

I can name lots and lots. It's harder to find countries that haven't helped us. Just look at the list of countries that sent help for Hurricane Katrina. Oman pledged $15m. Oman!

 
You apparently haven't read many of @LSU-SIU 's posts where he regurgitates Russian nonsense the same way that demented old man does in the video.

I've articulated my position numerous times in depth in this thread here are the cliff notes:

1) Ukraine complied materially with our demands under the Budapest Memorandum, destroyed or gave up the very weapons that would have prevented Russia's ability to invade them. We can either support them as we said we would, or compensate them for the weapons they gave up.

2) If we uphold our agreement in the Budapest Memorandum, or compensate Ukraine for the weapons they gave up to comply with the agreement, I'd give Ukraine every weapon they asked for short of nuclear weapons that they could make use of, for as long as they choose to defend themselves.

3) I'd sanction every Russian oligarch, and ban all Russian visas for US travel.

4) I'd give Ukraine NATO membership as soon the conflict ended, because NATO membership is the only way to guarantee that Russia doesn't rearm and reinvade the same way they did with Chechnya after the IMF bailed them out.

The war could end to day if Putin stopped waging it, he's the only reason that the war continues at this point.
You still didn't go into detail. How much compensation/support in detail should we give them? Is there a limit or is it unlimited. Does this support include boots on the ground? Ban all Russian visas? Even a regular citizen that isn't wealthy? Is there a limit to how much wealth a Russian citizen has the you wouldn't ban their visas?

Hypothetical question for you. If when the USSR first dissolved, would you have supported Russia as a nato member if they had wanted membership?
 
You still didn't go into detail. How much compensation/support in detail should we give them? Is there a limit or is it unlimited. Does this support include boots on the ground? Ban all Russian visas? Even a regular citizen that isn't wealthy? Is there a limit to how much wealth a Russian citizen has the you wouldn't ban their visas?

Hypothetical question for you. If when the USSR first dissolved, would you have supported Russia as a nato member if they had wanted membership?

I'm not going into detail, it's been hashed out ad nauseum here for 3 years, I'm sorry you are late to the party, but the search function is there to help you.

There are no need to go into hypotheticals about Russia joining NATO, Putin broached the subject with Clinton, but didn't want to have to go through the MAP process and be voted in.
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Because of course, Europe purchasing NG from Russia is 100% the cause of Russia invading Ukraine, and is the primary Reason why Marco Rubio lost his spine when Trump took office.
its keeping Russia afloat. it looks like it was 42.9 Billion cubic meters, which is still about 1/3 of their total exports. cutting that money in would really hurt Russia's war chest.
 
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Because of course, Europe purchasing NG from Russia is 100% the cause of Russia invading Ukraine, and is the primary Reason why Marco Rubio lost his spine when Trump took office.

It's a huge reason Russia has the funds to continue the war. Hell, Ukraine was buying NG and oil from Russia until January this year, how stupid is that? Financing your own destruction.
 
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I'm not going into detail, it's been hashed out ad nauseum here for 3 years, I'm sorry you are late to the party, but the search function is there to help you.

There are no need to go into hypotheticals about Russia joining NATO, Putin broached the subject with Clinton, but didn't want to have to go through the MAP process and be voted in.
View attachment 725760

Yeltsin actually broached the subject of joining NATO in the 90s.
 
I'm not going into detail, it's been hashed out ad nauseum here for 3 years, I'm sorry you are late to the party, but the search function is there to help you.

There are no need to go into hypotheticals about Russia joining NATO, Putin broached the subject with Clinton, but didn't want to have to go through the MAP process and be voted in.
View attachment 725760
That's not the question that I asked you. I asked if you would have supported it?
 
its keeping Russia afloat. it looks like it was 42.9 Billion cubic meters, which is still about 1/3 of their total exports. cutting that money in would really hurt Russia's war chest.

And it would have been moot if they'd given Ukraine a MAP in 2008. The mistake wasn't necessarily in purchasing Russian fossil fuels, but trusting that purchasing those fossil fuels and forging economic ties, would stave off Putin's imperial ambitions for reconstituting a Russian empire.

They were all wrong, and Merkel and Gerhard Schroeder were actually complicit IMHO.
 
That's not the question that I asked you. I asked if you would have supported it?
Myself, no. If Russia had actually made any strides towards democracy, my opinion might have been different, but once a former KGB agent took control of the country, I knew it was only a matter of time before he took total control.
 
Myself, no. If Russia had actually made any strides towards democracy, my opinion might have been different, but once a former KGB agent took control of the country, I knew it was only a matter of time before he took total control.
the West was over the moon when Putin was handed the baton
 
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And it would have been moot if they'd given Ukraine a MAP in 2008. The mistake wasn't necessarily in purchasing Russian fossil fuels, but trusting that purchasing those fossil fuels and forging economic ties, would stave off Putin's imperial ambitions for reconstituting a Russian empire.

They were all wrong, and Merkel and Gerhard Schroeder were actually complicit IMHO.

LOL

They are STILL funding Putin by buying Russian petroleum. If Europe was truly concerned about Russian expansion you'd think they would quit filling the Russian coffers.
 
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Myself, no. If Russia had actually made any strides towards democracy, my opinion might have been different, but once a former KGB agent took control of the country, I knew it was only a matter of time before he took total control.
Thanks, it provides insight into what your leanings are as far as US foreign policy goes.
 
Myself, no. If Russia had actually made any strides towards democracy, my opinion might have been different, but once a former KGB agent took control of the country, I knew it was only a matter of time before he took total control.
I don't think democracy as we understand it was ever really an option there.
 
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And it would have been moot if they'd given Ukraine a MAP in 2008. The mistake wasn't necessarily in purchasing Russian fossil fuels, but trusting that purchasing those fossil fuels and forging economic ties, would stave off Putin's imperial ambitions for reconstituting a Russian empire.

They were all wrong, and Merkel and Gerhard Schroeder were actually complicit IMHO.
dude you are getting to be like LSU. you are all over the place here.

we are talking about 2024 Russia natural gas sales, and you bring up 2008 NATO? try to stay in the lane.

and no it wouldn't have been moot. a MAP isn't membership. they would still have to comply and get voted in. remember Hungary holding up Finland and Sweden for so long now? Yeah it would have been worse back then with Ukraine.
 
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the West was over the moon when Putin was handed the baton
I think they were excited about what he was a younger, enthusiastic and strong leader could accomplish......... It obviously didn't break the way we had hoped.

Too much territory, with too many ethnically and culturally different people with a troubled history of forced compliance and deep seeded grudges.
 

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