War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

I believe everyone has a right to defend themselves. I don't have to go join every single self defense fight to remain consistent.

just because you have the right to defend yourself doesn't guarantee that you will be successful.

Opportunity vs outcome. only the opportunity is guaranteed.

Going down in a Blaze of Glory is always an option, the issue here is using our funds/resources to do it. Furthering the issue, they are throwing people in vans to supply the meat on our dime.

The other problem is they're trying to drag the U.S. and the world into a WW3 for their Blaze of Glory, and what I would say to them is....

 

[Sandman 423]

So you see no difference in Ukraine fighting to defend themselves from Russia invading, and Russia fighting to conquer them?

No, there is a huge difference. However, I feel like what we have done so has only prolonged the war and added needless deaths. I also believe our government is using this as an opportunity to profit while debilitating Russia's military.

 

[volinbham]

Hmmm… obviously we’re not killing people directly, but yes, our actions/inactions indirectly result in deaths worldwide. See USAID. Now plenty of kids in “shithole” countries will die from famine and/or lack of immunization.

The richest man on the planet ****s over the poorest. Thanks President Musk.

so by that logic you not donating more money to aid causes is resulting in deaths - how do you live with yourself.

Europe wasn't giving proportionally as much as us; murdering bastages.

 

[LSU-SIU]

They better get to spending, Germany looks like they are in the early lead and that usually isn't good for their neighbors. Just saying.

And look... the British are encouraging them.
How the return of the German army could help save Europe

Someone posted this the other day but it seems relevant.

 

[FortSanders]

Calling this a Munich Agreement is moranic. Munich was a case of one of our present so-called allies -- Germany -- preparing to invade Russia. Absorbing one country after another along the way.

Ummm. The Munich Agreement was a prelude to the Nazi takeover of Czechoslovakia, which occured without a shot being fired. It also occurred despite Hitler's assurance he would not invade any other country, including Poland. Hitler broke his agreement in less than a year, when he invaded Poland on Sept. 1, 1939. The Nazis invaded France in May,1940 and Russia on June 22, 1941.

 

[BeardedVol]

No, there is a huge difference. However, I feel like what we have done so has only prolonged the war and added needless deaths. I also believe our government is using this as an opportunity to profit while debilitating Russia's military.

So, by giving Ukraine the weapons to defend themselves, we're "prolonging the war"?

The alternative is Russia committing genocide in all of Ukraine, rather than just the east.

That is the most bizarre logic, that helping Ukraine defend themselves, is somehow responsible for Putin continuing to wage war against them.

It's like arguing that a woman is responsible for prolonging a rape as long as she's resisting being raped.

 

[hog88]

So, by giving Ukraine the weapons to defend themselves, we're "prolonging the war"?

The alternative is Russia committing genocide in all of Ukraine, rather than just the east.

That is the most bizarre logic, that helping Ukraine defend themselves, is somehow responsible for Putin continuing to wage war against them.

It's like arguing that a woman is responsible for prolonging a rape as long as she's resisting being raped.

If we gave Ukraine all of the weapons, ammunition, support, aid, intelligence they wanted (no strings attached) how long do you think it would take them to defeat Russia? Defeat is defined as driving them out of Ukraine completely (include or not as you choose Crimea). What's your estimate on Ukrainian casualties incurred to defeat Russia?

 

[apevol]

Since I am trying to be nice, I think I should give you a do-over on this one.

I don’t think you really want to be the president of the local chapter of Friends of Erdoğan™

this is something ill agree with you on.
If Russia has significantly decreased influence in central asia, we will see Erdogan doing some pretty horrific things

 

[KB5252]

So, by giving Ukraine the weapons to defend themselves, we're "prolonging the war"?

The alternative is Russia committing genocide in all of Ukraine, rather than just the east.

That is the most bizarre logic, that helping Ukraine defend themselves, is somehow responsible for Putin continuing to wage war against them.

It's like arguing that a woman is responsible for prolonging a rape as long as she's resisting being raped.

Without an infusion of foreign troops how long can Ukraine hang in, even with all these weapons? What are the prospects for successful defense and repulsion of Russian invaders?

 

[LSU-SIU]

If we gave Ukraine all of the weapons, ammunition, support, aid, intelligence they wanted (no strings attached) how long do you think it would take them to defeat Russia? Defeat is defined as driving them out of Ukraine completely (include or not as you choose Crimea). What's your estimate on Ukrainian casualties incurred to defeat Russia?

I'll go first.

how long do you think it would take them to defeat Russia?

Most likely never.

What's your estimate on Ukrainian casualties incurred to defeat Russia?

All of them will die or lose limbs, but they most likely won't defeat them. Its not really possible without some other very significant factor.

Now that was easy.

More or less what I said 2.5 years ago.

This is kind of like when we started asking if the Ukraine was winning, same people same avoidance.

 

[Sandman 423]

So, by giving Ukraine the weapons to defend themselves, we're "prolonging the war"?

The alternative is Russia committing genocide in all of Ukraine, rather than just the east.

That is the most bizarre logic, that helping Ukraine defend themselves, is somehow responsible for Putin continuing to wage war against them.

It's like arguing that a woman is responsible for prolonging a rape as long as she's resisting being raped.

That is a stupid analogy. I mean really stupid. You want to protect Ukraine? The only way to do that is to intervene. If you aren’t for doing that then you may need to adjust your expectations.

 

[BeardedVol]

That is a stupid analogy. I mean really stupid. You want to protect Ukraine? The only way to do that is to intervene. If you aren’t for doing that then you may need to adjust your expectations.

So how is helping Ukraine defend themselves "prolonging the war"?

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. The war could end tomorrow if Putin stopped attacking Ukraine.

 

[BeardedVol]

Without an infusion of foreign troops how long can Ukraine hang in, even with all these weapons? What are the prospects for successful defense and repulsion of Russian invaders?

It's a moot point considering that they've continued to "hang in" without an infusion of foreign troops.

A better question would be how long can Russia afford to keep waging war if Ukraine were given the weapons they've requested, in the quantities they've requested, without the moronic restrictions put on them by the Biden admin?

 

[hog88]

It's a moot point considering that they've continued to "hang in" without an infusion of foreign troops.

A better question would be how long can Russia afford to keep waging war if Ukraine were given the weapons they've requested, in the quantities they've requested, without the moronic restrictions put on them by the Biden admin?

No this is a better question.

If we gave Ukraine all of the weapons, ammunition, support, aid, intelligence they wanted (no strings attached) how long do you think it would take them to defeat Russia? Defeat is defined as driving them out of Ukraine completely (include or not as you choose Crimea). What's your estimate on Ukrainian casualties incurred to defeat Russia?

 

[Sandman 423]

So how is helping Ukraine defend themselves "prolonging the war"?

Ukraine didn't invade Russia. The war could end tomorrow if Putin stopped attacking Ukraine.

It is prolonging it because they don’t have the ability to win,Imo. It’s not Ukraine’s fault putin invaded, and I absolutely feel for them. If I thought they could win I would support giving them weapons and funding. NATO should have sent peacekeepers in before the Russian buildup.