War in Ukraine

[AM64]

Russians need open and free elections. That's what they need. I would simply make that the condition. Withdraw and provide open and free elections.

Do some parts of the electorate - perhaps "ex"-communists get to use mail in ballots? What about same day registration? Free vodka to people waiting to vote? You did say "open and free", but you never said anything about honest or anything about quality assurance.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Someone loves history as much as I do.

Funny thing is that one of the best fought wars by Russia (Seven Years War) saw their new Czar that took over mid-war sign a treaty for nothing and join the Prussians. Russia's great period was the timeframe of Peter the Great through Catherine the Great. They did do a good job beating up Mongol and Turkish states such as the Great Horde, Kazan, Uzbeks, etc. but you are right that they really haven't done very well in modern era.

Peter the Great was one of the few truly transformative individuals in history. He pretty much reoriented Russia from a backward Asian Centric backwater into a European facing world power. Today’s impasse is a direct byproduct of his dragging his whole country, kicking and screaming, into the wider world.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

smh. I just read a report that said many russian units are walking to the Ukrainians starving and out of munitions and fuel. Probably won't be long now. Even if Putin called in the order from the bunker I suspect his generals would refuse.

 

[AM64]

It could conflict. The truth is never a bad thing, I don't understand why it seems people have a problem with it.

Usually it's because there are versions of the "truth". The people reporting the "truth" decide what is factual and what isn't and "explain" the fact and which fact matters most. I suppose you could call it filtered and distilled or selected truth.

 

[85SugarVol]

That’s a big number

 

[85SugarVol]

Congresswoman born in Ukraine blasts Putin's invasion: 'This is not war. This is genocide.'

 

[AM64]

Wasn’t it like 6.5 rubles when Putin took over? Now it looks weak compared to the Rupee.

Rename the ruble to "rubble"?

 

[Vol737]

Pretty good summary of divestiture from Russia:

The List of Foreign Companies Pulling Out of Russia Keeps Growing

 

[AM64]

My God, what type of munition did this?

Now you know why some of those guys probably abandoned their vehicles. It can get toasty in there, and even more exciting when ammunition stored inside starts cooking off.

 

[AM64]

For you people arguing about Putin and his motivations for the war you need to read the Fiona Apple article that someone posted earlier. She knows him like few people do. She knows people who have been following Putin since he was Vice-Mayor of St. Petersburg.

Meanwhile, I'm no Microsoft fan (since I didn't get in on the ground floor) but you need to read this. I'm glad they're on our side.

As the tanks rolled into Ukraine, so did Malware; Then Microsoft entered the war

For all the good and positive, the internet is going to be the death of us; and that's a shame because it has so much positive to offer.

 

[volbound1700]

Peter the Great was one of the few truly transformative individuals in history. He pretty much reoriented Russia from a backward Asian Centric backwater into a European facing world power. Today’s impasse is a direct byproduct of his dragging his whole country, kicking and screaming, into the wider world.

If his ghost was running Russia, they would probably be in the EU and NATO right now. He loved the West and thought Russia's future was in the European family. Granted, he had to deal with a very threatening Ottoman Empire and its ally the Crimean Khanate as well as tough northern threats: Poland-Lithuania and Sweden. Pivoting towards the West strengthened his hand against the Ottomans allowing for later Czars (notably Catherine the Great) to drive the Ottomans and their proxy states out of Russia entirely.

 

[MontyPython]

View attachment 436587

 

[Orangeburst]

Rename the ruble to "rubble"?

the Barney

 

[Hunerwadel]

Berkshire Hathaway has $149 Billion in CASH.

She obviously embezzled it from Jed.

 

[LouderVol]

No, this could have been avoided in 2013/2014. The slow boil of the last years has brought us to this point. Peace and diplomacy were easily within our grasp if we really wanted that. There is no strategic advantage or necessity to add Ukraine in NATO other than to agitate Russia.

Uhhh 2022 Ukraine says there is plenty of necessity to add Ukraine to NATO.

 

[tvolsfan]

There is no strategic advantage or necessity to add Ukraine in NATO other than to protect Ukraine.

That’s more accurate.

 

[OrangeTsar]

If his ghost was running Russia, they would probably be in the EU and NATO right now. He loved the West and thought Russia's future was in the European family. Granted, he had to deal with a very threatening Ottoman Empire and its ally the Crimean Khanate as well as tough northern threats: Poland-Lithuania and Sweden. Pivoting towards the West strengthened his hand against the Ottomans allowing for later Czars (notably Catherine the Great) to drive the Ottomans and their proxy states out of Russia entirely.

Yup, the Golden Horde and the Ottomans had ground Muscovy under their heels for centuries. They were ready to end that. Ironic that Catherine put so much effort into the Crimea considering that Putin put so much effort into reclaiming it. History is a repetitive tune isn’t it?

 

[Hunerwadel]

No, this could have been avoided in 2013/2014. The slow boil of the last years has brought us to this point. Peace and diplomacy were easily within our grasp if we really wanted that. There is no strategic advantage or necessity to add Ukraine in NATO other than to agitate Russia.

Can you repeat that. I missed it the first 50 times. Maybe add a meme or GIF.

 

[lawgator1]

Did they though. I'm not absolving Putin or the right but for years we've ignored the real possibility that expansion could lead to this. We've been very stupid and short sighted. The left and right and lobbyists who they've sold out to built Russia as well as Putin. And now we're surprised? We shouldn't have been.

No one with any credibility is still touting the "Its okay for Putin to invade because he was understandably afraid of NATO" excuse. It is crystal clear that Putin wanted to do this and planned to do this for a very long time.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Apologies if I overlooked someone already posting this. But I loved how the Simpsons predicted this one too, all the way back in 1998

 

[KB5252]

No one with any credibility is still touting the "Its okay for Putin to invade because he was understandably afraid of NATO" excuse. It is crystal clear that Putin wanted to do this and planned to do this for a very long time.

And we gave him the climate, precedent and resolve. Again, why were we surprised? We shouldn't have been.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Psssshhhh. Biden sucks, but the blood of Ukrainians is on the hands of those shooting them, not Biden.

The real fault goes back to Clinton who convinced the Ukranaians to give up the Nukes they inherited after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Ukraine was promised that it’s independence would be guaranteed in return. You know Kyiv is regretting relying on THAT promise now.

 

[LouderVol]

Anybody remember what happened when the Soviets got involved in a country next to the US? Anyone?

Trying not to understand why someone wouldn't want a military opponent knocking at their door is why the world is a sh*tshow.

We got our butt kicked in a failed invasion after our operatives built up some limited local support and a bad pretense?

 

[AM64]

Why the 180?

Yesterday people were saying it would be wrong to fly missions against the Russians from bases outside Ukraine. The distinction between supplying planes and all that's necessary from bases outside Ukraine and actually flying missions from those bases is blurry - and who flies the support missions to bring in fuel munitions and supplies. The in for a penny in for a pound argument. Secondly, I haven't seen anyone questioning that if Ukraine needs the planes whether they actually have pilots current enough to fly them, but that really needs to be considered - and can Ukraine provide trained ground support. It's a far more complex issue than suppling rifles, anti-tank weapons, or even tanks. Could be reality setting in.

 

[rjd970]

No, this could have been avoided in 2013/2014. The slow boil of the last years has brought us to this point. Peace and diplomacy were easily within our grasp if we really wanted that. There is no strategic advantage or necessity to add Ukraine in NATO other than to agitate Russia.

I’ll say it again, this is happening precisely because Ukraine is not part of NATO.

If NATO said no to Ukraine just to avoid bloodshed, then where does it end? What if Russia said Poland needs to leave NATO or we will invade? Should NATO kick them out to avoid bloodshed there too?

At the end of the day Ukraine is a sovereign nation and NATO is an independent organization. Russia doesn’t have to like it but blaming NATO here for not capitulating to Russia as the cause of this war is one of the dumbest takes I’ve seen. This is on Russia. They don’t invade and we don’t have war. Period. End of story.