War in Ukraine

[Paper_Towel]

 

[KB5252]

If that is the case, then why are we still talking about this 40 mile Russian convoy that Pelosi was talking about? Why have they been able to sit comfortably where they are unmolested for the last week or two?


It's obvious you are watching CNN or MSNBC or even Fox to get this info. The very same people that have gaslighted us about COVID. But now, they are reliable sources of information when it comes to this.

Well video and picture evidence is very compelling. Please show me your evidence to the contrary, I have an open mind.

 

[evillawyer]

He knows what gets the knuckledraggers frisky

 

[KB5252]

This is Baghdad Bob level of delusion.

If it isn't why are so many Russian aircraft being shot down? While Ukraine aircraft aren't flying around that doesn't mean that Russian aircraft are flying around with impunity. Ukraine air defense measures have been effective. Perhaps the delusion is yours.

 

[MontyPython]

This is Baghdad Bob level of delusion.

So you don't believe the air is still contested in Ukraine. Mkay.

On what pray tell do you base your opinion?

 

[Paper_Towel]

Not really Ukraine related, but Lt Col's got him all the tabs:

 

[LouderVol]

Russia could have easily gone in shock and awe style and hold Kiev. They had air superiority very quickly. So why didn't they do that?

Because of supply issues. And if they havent got control of the country side they could be over extending and putting themselves in a bad position. As both the US and Russia learned in Afghanistan air superiority doesnt help a ton against constant small actions which can cripple ground forces. Or even look at Iraq as well.

Even if it isnt 40km of armor outside of Kiev, the fact they have any significant amount of armor stalled says that they couldnt have done shock and Awe under the current conditions. They russians arent storing military equipment in Ukraine because they ran out of staging room in Russia.

 

[DonjoVol]

They won't be "just fine" they will feel the pain but they will pull through.

It could possibly be rough at first but like you said they will pull through. Which means they will be just fine.

Putin has also been wanting to create a Eurasian alliance to counter the West and NATO. I think he wants Ukraine and Georgia as part of that alliance but it looks like that will not happen. So he has encouraged and supported independence movements in places like Abkhazia and Transnistria. If you look at their geographic locations one can see why he has supported their independence movements. Even if the U.S. and Western Europeans countries stopped doing business completely with Russia they still have countries like China, Pakistan, India, and many countries in Africa and the Middle East and the rest of the world that they will continue doing business with. China and India alone have over 2 billion people. This is why I say they will be just fine.

 

[Gandalf]

I do understand all that but what you're saying is that China, and these others create their own micro economy. I just don't see it happening that way. If these countries want sell stuff to Russia, they'll still get worthless rubles in turn. Russia really only has oil and even their oil isn't worth as much because of limited markets.

I humbly propose that you do not, exactly.

Rubles are worthless in only in dollar terms. Dollars are only worth something because people agree that they are for the purposes of exchange of goods.

WE need the dollar to be the reserve because it means we can have more money to pay for Trillion $ deficits just by creating more dollars on a computer. No one else can do that.

BUT, if a barrel of oil can be had from Russia for 100 Rubles, then what. In fact, since they have been running a surplus for a bit, that might even be a wise move - peg the rubble to a barrel of oil. Overnight, the Ruble to Dollar would shoot right back up. Or declare that they are taking Yuan in payment (which would be perfectly acceptable payment to pay Chinese wholesalers of goods).

See where I am going with this?

 

[landscapingvol]

No, you did not say "roughly".



By your own admission, the US was there at least a year before. I would argue at least 3-4 years prior going back to 2011.

I apologize for not counting the exact number of months but both nations have been there since 2014/2015 and of course you would argue the US has been there to cause chaos which is what you are implying by using the year 2011 and Russia has been the stabilizing presence while the US is occupying

 

[Gandalf]

Well video and picture evidence is very compelling. Please show me your evidence to the contrary, I have an open mind.

see this video and get back with us War in Ukraine

 

[red butler]

What are we so dependent on Russia for, other than oil, they don't produce anything critical that can't be sourced elsewhere. The Russian people will suffer much more that we will.

When Russia companies are unable to pay their debts due at the end of the month, how many credit default swaps will that trigger? How many had to trigger to start the mortgage crisis? I'm not sure if anybody has a handle on the risk to our financial institutions, but if we use recent market history as a guide, it's misguided to think we won't be impacted at all IMO.

 

[LouderVol]

No they couldn't have. Russian ground forces are ill trained, poorly equipped, poorly led and lack motivation. That's what you get with a corrupt officer corp, a non existent NCO corp and conscript soldiers.

There are pictures of Russians with Mosin Nagants.

Perfectly fine weapon system, from WWI.

The more I am seeing the more I am thinking this was Putin trying to get rid of two birds with one stone. Do a little bit of a purge, while accepting higher losses than expected or slower time table to take out Ukraine. It may come back to bite him or he may have to step up. And if he is dropping hints of nukes he is considering some sort of escalation. It's another of his micro aggressions. Threaten nukes, but only do conventional tactics keeps the west on the side line.

 

[DonjoVol]

I apologize for not counting the exact number of months but both nations have been there since 2014/2015 and of course you would argue the US has been there to cause chaos which is what you are implying by using the year 2011 and Russia has been the stabilizing presence while the US is occupying

The U.S. was there to cause chaos. McCain himself went there and gave a speech encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow their government at the time and stated in a news interview that Ukraine needed IMF loans. I will gladly post these videos if you like. What gives the U.S. the right to go over on other countries land and tell them what they need to do?

 

[hog88]

There are pictures of Russians with Mosin Nagants.

Perfectly fine weapon system, from WWI.

The more I am seeing the more I am thinking this was Putin trying to get rid of two birds with one stone. Do a little bit of a purge, while accepting higher losses than expected or slower time table to take out Ukraine. It may come back to bite him or he may have to step up. And if he is dropping hints of nukes he is considering some sort of escalation. It's another of his micro aggressions. Threaten nukes, but only do conventional tactics keeps the west on the side line.

My belief is Putin didn't know the shape his military was in, his officer corp has been stuffing their pockets and lying to him.

 

[DonjoVol]

 

[Paper_Towel]

 

[Paper_Towel]

 

[InVOLuntary]

I humbly propose that you do not, exactly.

Rubles are worthless in only in dollar terms. Dollars are only worth something because people agree that they are for the purposes of exchange of goods.

WE need the dollar to be the reserve because it means we can have more money to pay for Trillion $ deficits just by creating more dollars on a computer. No one else can do that.

BUT, if a barrel of oil can be had from Russia for 100 Rubles, then what. In fact, since they have been running a surplus for a bit, that might even be a wise move - peg the rubble to a barrel of oil. Overnight, the Ruble to Dollar would shoot right back up. Or declare that they are taking Yuan in payment (which would be perfectly acceptable payment to pay Chinese wholesalers of goods).

See where I am going with this?

I see exactly where you're going with this. I disagree in your minimization of the power of the dollar. Russia can trade those rubles to other countries but then those other countries are forced then to trade back with Russia because those rubles are worthless to other countries. Like I said, I don't think setting a micro economy up with a few countries, many of which are just as bad as Russia behavior wise, is going to rescue them. Sorry, just don't see it happening.

 

[landscapingvol]

The U.S. was there to cause chaos. McCain himself went there and gave a speech encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow their government at the time and stated in a news interview that Ukraine needed IMF loans. I will gladly post these videos if you like. What gives the U.S. the right to go over on other countries land and tell them what they need to do?

You two are hilarious. What do you think Russia is there to do, hand out warm clothes and feed the poor? The US wants a strong Ukraine to counteract Russia's meddling and the Russia wants a pro Russia Ukraine to prevent European/US influence. There is no good guy here but only one of those two nations is killing innocent people in Ukraine, you are the only two on the board that can't seem to comprehend that. You can bring up anything from slavery to Afghanistan but it won't change either of those facts.

 

[LouderVol]

The U.S. was there to cause chaos. McCain himself went there and gave a speech encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow their government at the time and stated in a news interview that Ukraine needed IMF loans. I will gladly post these videos if you like. What gives the U.S. the right to go over on other countries land and tell them what they need to do?

I guarentee right up until this war we had Russians over here giving speeches on what should be done. We still do it with plenty of foreign nationals, see all the Green stuff, or health care, guns, plenty of outside influencers saying what we should be doing.

I would be willing to bet there are videos of the russians doing the same thing. Its not an either or issue.

If you want to say US involvement in Ukraine/Syria is wrong, fine. But then dont turn around and say Russia. Involvement in Ukraine/Syria is ok or justified because the US did it first. What are we? Five years old?

As much fire as Ras spits at the US he should be making towards Russia. As much fire as others post against Russia they should also do against the US.

Both sides are standing on their side and saying the other is wrong for what they are also doing.

 

[red butler]

I see exactly where you're going with this. I disagree in your minimization of the power of the dollar. Russia can trade those rubles to other countries but then those other countries are forced then to trade back with Russia because those rubles are worthless to other countries. Like I said, I don't think setting a micro economy up with a few countries, many of which are just as bad as Russia behavior wise, is going to rescue them. Sorry, just don't see it happening.

I'm pretty sure Russia has been building up their gold reserves for the better part of the last decade. The Indian government, as well as its citizens are heavy gold investors. What happens if Russia trades in gold reserves instead of rubles? I suspect most of the governments Russia is dealing with would rather have precious metals instead of paper money anyway.

 

[landscapingvol]

The U.S. was there to cause chaos. McCain himself went there and gave a speech encouraging Ukrainians to overthrow their government at the time and stated in a news interview that Ukraine needed IMF loans. I will gladly post these videos if you like. What gives the U.S. the right to go over on other countries land and tell them what they need to do?

The major difference is the US isn't threatening to use nuclear weapons on anyone else while attempting to destabilize nearly every bordering nation that happens to impact European politics. Those are huge distinctions that don't occur in a political vacuum. Is the US great at nation building? No, and they shouldn't engage in it and we have paid the price for it just as Russia is going to. Right or wrong the rest of the World viewed Saddam as a threat, no one had that same view of Ukraine other than Russia.

 

[DonjoVol]

I guarentee right up until this war we had Russians over here giving speeches on what should be done. We still do it with plenty of foreign nationals, see all the Green stuff, or health care, guns, plenty of outside influencers saying what we should be doing.

I would be willing to bet there are videos of the russians doing the same thing. Its not an either or issue.

If you want to say US involvement in Ukraine/Syria is wrong, fine. But then dont turn around and say Russia. Involvement in Ukraine/Syria is ok or justified because the US did it first. What are we? Five years old?

As much fire as Ras spits at the US he should be making towards Russia. As much fire as others post against Russia they should also do against the US.

Both sides are standing on their side and saying the other is wrong for what they are also doing.

I never said Russian involvement in Ukraine is okay. However, the official government and recognized leader of Syria did invite Russia into their conflict to help.

I do not see any Russian politicians coming here to the U.S., Mexico, and Canada and inciting anyone to overthrew their government. If I am wrong about that please let me know.

See my comments I have made regarding the Russian government's treatment of Jehovah Witnesses. I believe I am the only one on here who has brought that up.

And what in the world did a senator from Arizona have getting involved in Ukraine? That was also not the only country he got involved in. He got involved in Georgia and Syria. He should have been focusing more of his time on the issues here at home and in his home state. He had no business getting involved in international affairs and stirring up conflict. But, McCain is the man with integrity now so I guess it was okay.

 

[DC_Vol]

FYP - and then I propose you think about why I fixed it. What happens if they pay China for goods and convert Rubles to Yuan? oops, no dollar involved. People need USD because they want to buy oil - if Saudis start taking Yuan for it, then...

What you arent quite getting is that the only reason its a problem is because they are buying from people who ask for dollars. If those wholesalers pay in Yuan, Iranian Rials or whatever else, they can convert to that for far greater value than it is pegged to the dollar. After a bit that means the dollar itself collapses because fewer people are buying it to make purchases of goods.

Gandalf lays out one of the biggest risks on the horizon for the US right here…pay attention.