War in Ukraine

[allvol123]

It's pretty apparent Putin has been kept in the dark about his true military capability so what makes you think he believes he cannot win a war against NATO?

He is sane and watched the past 3 weeks.

 

[hog88]

I don’t see much winning. They are a month in and haven’t taken the capital. Most things I have read said that should already have been done.

Recruiting Syrians to bolster your military, a military that has 75% of its forces dedicated to this operation. Again, not winning.

More KIA in one month, than the US has had in the past 20 years of its war mongering. Again, not winning.

It took us almost a month to take Baghdad so I don't know why anyone is surprised that Russia hasn't been able to take Kiev in 3 weeks.

 

[allvol123]

It took us almost a month to take Baghdad so I don't know why anyone is surprised that Russia hasn't been able to take Kiev in 3 weeks.

Did we have 10,000 dead and equipment losses like this?

 

[luthervol]

Bolton and Luther are all about using force to achieve all of their goals, the only difference is that Bolton isn’t dishonest about his methods.

lol....I thought it was about the threat of force. Wasn't that the whole concept behind nuclear proliferation.

 

[luthervol]

Were you not here during the cold war? It wasnt that there was peace so much as there were no great wars, only small ones and spy vs spy action. Mind you, vietnam, being a "small war". Again the second half of the 20th century was not peaceful at all.

Sure I was. It's time we progress to the next level.

 

[hog88]

I agree. Don't think we should do it. I confess I don't understand the qualitative difference in escalation whereby a no fly zone is escalation but sending a billion in weapons isn't. But I guess the latter is par for the course for the last century.

Establishing and enforcing a no fly zone would require direct contact between NATO and Russian militaries. What happens when Russia shoots down a NATO plane or visa versa?

 

[norrislakevol]

I fully understand that is the position being taken.
I just disagree. Why did we not take him seriously when he claimed sanctions or arming Ukraine were acts of war?
What if he attacks a NATO country? Do we intervene then? Why then and not now? Risking a nuclear attack is justified if it is a NATO nation but not justified when it is not? That seems odd.

I do see what you are saying, but the red line is clearly drawn if he attacks a NATO nation. This is something that has been established for decades. He knows this. I am assuming that there has already been a no fly zone over these nations already for a long time.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Need I remind you that Nato is a defensive alliance? Their interest is in defending member states.

Ukraine isn't a member state. You sound like Kamala.

 

[DuckInAPen]

Nobody wants war. Just have to be realistic about what he's doing and trying to balance the value of deterrence versus escalation.

There are influential people calling for a no-fly zone over Ukraine. They're calling for war, whether or not they want it.

 

[MontyPython]

Winning could be being up 3-0 after the first possession of the game. Doesnt make any predictors on the rest of the game. But at the time its winning.

Civilians continuing to get bombed is not Ukraine winning.
Not controlling your own skies is not Ukraine winning.
Fighting miles outside their capital and on at least two other fronts inside your own territory is not Ukraine winning.

The war isnt over one way or the other.

Your highlighted statement is wrong. If and when the Ukrainians lack the ability to fight outside Kyiv and Karkiv, then the Russians will be able to get close enough to artillery the city to rubble.

 

[landscapingvol]

It took us almost a month to take Baghdad so I don't know why anyone is surprised that Russia hasn't been able to take Kiev in 3 weeks.

That is extremely misleading, the US held off on Baghdad. They held off briefly to consolidate their supply lines, Baghdad fell in two weeks on April 9th, the other major cities fell by April 13th. The operation began March 20th

 

[KB5252]

Did we have 10,000 dead and equipment losses like this?

I think the high amount of losses is primarily a result of the Russians philosophy toward warfare. They have a history of fighting in this manner.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s so weird to think that they could sit down at the same table and agree to do the same thing just to see if Putin breaks the zone so they can blame it on him for the escalation .

That is how we roll with our foreign policy. We escalate and agitate and then when the opposing side responds, then we can essentially hide our hands after throwing the rock and blame them for reacting.

 

[landscapingvol]

I think the high amount of losses is primarily a result of the Russians philosophy toward warfare. They have a history of fighting in this manner.

You mean terrible tactics? Yes, I agree. They ignore casualty rates

 

[hog88]

He is sane and watched the past 3 weeks.

And now backed into a corner, if he doesn't take Ukraine I don't see how he can stay in power. Sane people do insane stuff when cornered.

 

[allvol123]

I think the high amount of losses is primarily a result of the Russians philosophy toward warfare. They have a history of fighting in this manner.

Ok. I will agree with that some.

 

[hog88]

Did we have 10,000 dead and equipment losses like this?

No and our military is 100x better trained and equipped than Russia's so again, why are you surprised about the timeline?

 

[landscapingvol]

That is how we roll with our foreign policy. We escalate and agitate and then when the opposing side responds, then we can essentially hide our hands after throwing the rock and blame them for reacting.

You mean like Russia has been agitating Ukraine for centuries?

 

[Septic]

Pretty good.

Good stuff.

 

[allvol123]

And now backed into a corner, if he doesn't take Ukraine I don't see how he can stay in power. Sane people do insane stuff when cornered.

Indeed.

If there is a win even remaining on the table for him, I’d like some to explain it to me. Cause I don’t see it.

Even taking Ukraine, you are now an international outcast and your best friend, China, realizes you are incompetent.

 

[Velo Vol]

It took us almost a month to take Baghdad so I don't know why anyone is surprised that Russia hasn't been able to take Kiev in 3 weeks.

wut

Right after the invasion people were talking about it falling in three days.

 

[MontyPython]

British MI:

 

[allvol123]

No and our military is 100x better trained and equipped than Russia's so again, why are you surprised about the timeline?

Because it goes against much of what I have read.

 

[hog88]

That is extremely misleading, the US held off on Baghdad. They held off briefly to consolidate their supply lines, Baghdad fell in two weeks on April 9th, the other major cities fell by April 13th. The operation began March 20th

The point stands. It took a vastly superior (to the Russians) military 3 weeks (26-28 days) to take Iraq so nobody should be surprised at the Ukraine time-frame.

 

[volgr]

What war is he winning?

If Putin isnt winning the war, why the urgency for US/Nato involvement?