War in Ukraine

#20,628
#20,628
volgr said:
Yeah, they ain't giving that up. To the victors go the spoils.
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They haven't won anything yet. If I was Ukraine, I would continue the fight until the last Russian soldier left the entirety of Ukraine because there is no way that Russia will not still want to control those breakaway regions nor will that want to give up the land bridge to Crimea.
 
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#20,629
#20,629
landscapingvol said:
Go ahead and give us all the justification for Russia invading Ukraine, I will hang up and listen
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I've already explained it. Putin himself has given multiple speeches on the matter. You are either a level headed person who understand it, or you are biased Russophobe who will label any justification as a false pretense.
 
#20,630
#20,630
825VOL said:
They haven't won anything yet. If I was Ukraine, I would continue the fight until the last Russian soldier left the entirety of Ukraine because there is no way that Russia will not still want to control those breakaway regions nor will that want to give up the land bridge to Crimea.
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They've had Crimea since 2014. After this, unless NATO gets involved, they will have much more.
 
#20,638
#20,638
volgr said:
Yeah, dumb****, Putin is the only one who can say why he invaded Ukraine. Who else should we ask?
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Do you understand what someone says and justification can be the same or actually not compatible at all?

Goodness you’re an idiot.

I can kill someone, if my reason is they made me mad, that is not justification.

If it is they were threatening to kill me, that is justification.
 
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#20,639
#20,639
277298553_10224599831842408_8843997547857664537_n.jpg
 
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#20,640
#20,640
NCFisher said:
Perhaps because Russia doesn't stand for other countries to sow and support separatist groups in Russia, as they do in other countries.

We've gone over this; "well-documented" by whom, in a world in which deviating from the left evokes "Nazi!"? I find PLENTY of allusion to that but don't find it compelling evidence.

I gave a brief history of OUN, including their collaboration with Germany to rid the country of Poles, Russians, etc., who had ruled and abused them. How they saw Germany as liberators which lasted about one month until Bandera was tossed into the clink and then Sachsenhausen concentration camp until Sept. 1944. Bandera didn't hate Russia because he was a devotee of Nazism, but of Ukraine; I don't ***** blame him.

It's a girthy topic, but essentially did the nationalists kill Russians and Poles because Ukrainians were Nazis? Of course not. To the degree they were antisemitic, it appears based in that Jews supported the Muscovite rule, and not an independent Ukraine. The Germans concluded OUN and UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army begat by OUN) were indifferent to Jews, and would alternately kill, shelter, or employ them as best served nationalist aims.

Wikipedia is an easily accessible, leftist org. I expect them to call OUN, Bandera, UPA, Azov 'Nazis' and imply the Ukrainian government has a 'Nazi problem' and they oblige on all counts. But, even their pages don't support the Nazi allusions they make. Like science, truth isn't a democracy that a mob of implication can overwhelm by sheer numbers. Here's a handful I urge people to read for themselves, my dog isn't fighting:
Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - Wikipedia
Azov Battalion - Wikipedia
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I think one aspect often missed is that the German Nazis were not simply antisemitic, but Aryan with a hierarchy of races (even within "white" ones) with the Teutonic Germany at the apogee. In the same way, it seems to me that the term "Nazi" being used for Ukraine groups are Aryan nationalists who hate "white" Poles and Russians mostly. Jews and the rest are of less concern really. So its some sort of Aryanism mixed in cultural nationalism.

People like simple labels though, especially when they can tar their enemies with disparaging ones.
 
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#20,642
#20,642
volgr said:
You are so pathetic and transparent. Russia didn't invade under false pretenses. Also, "whatever means necessary" is your justification for basically excusing any Ukrainian atrocity while holding Russia to the strictest of standards.
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Did Ukraine invade Russia
 
#20,646
#20,646
Gandalf said:
I think one aspect often missed is that the German Nazis were not simply antisemitic, but Aryan with a hierarchy of races (even within "white" ones) with the Teutonic Germany at the apogee. In the same way, it seems to me that the term "Nazi" being used for Ukraine groups are Aryan nationalists who hate "white" Poles and Russians mostly. Jews and the rest are of less concern really. So its some sort of Aryanism mixed in cultural nationalism.

People like simple labels though, especially when they can tar their enemies with disparaging ones.
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I've explained this as well on how the Bandera loyalists hate Russians and Poles with a passion. Right now their focus is more on Russians.
 
#20,648
#20,648
IluvdoubleD's said:
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Fighting on somebody else's turf is dangerous business - tends to make them mad and motivated in most cases. Advantage goes to the home team ... visitors in this case seem to be getting their butts kicked, and Coach Putin looks worse than what we'd been hiring for football coaches - a lot worse.
 
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