Was Golesh the "secret sauce" to the Heupel offense?

#126
#126
JBVolunteer said:
As the saying goes, “Iron sharpens iron.” I don’t believe Halzle is capable of truly challenging Heupel’s mind and thought process in the way that’s necessary. The real question is whether Heupel is willing to put himself in a position to be challenged, or if he’s convinced that his way is the only way.

Getting blown out by OSU will either serve as a wake-up call for Heupel, highlighting the inefficiencies within his team and staff and motivating change, or he will double down on his current approach.

If it’s the latter, I fear the OSU loss could mark the beginning of the end for the Heupel era.
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Wouldnt you rather put more stock in our turning the bama and gator series in our favor than a single game with OSU?
 
#127
#127
DaddyChad said:
You think that is limits of the system or limits of the personnel running the system?
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It has appeared to be a rigid implementation of the system that is the issue. But, there are significant limitations with the system.
1. Wide splits make middle field crosses exceptionally difficult and make attacking C2 more difficult. A smash concept becomes a really long throw to the hitch, so we in a sense dictate and key what we cannot do. This simplifies things for the defense as well.
2. Half-field routes allow teams to shift coverages and do not hold players over on the backsides. It is like having g a running offense with no misdirection to go along with sweeps and isos.
3. There are a lot of adjustments required for this offense to work. If guys aren’t on the same page, it is dead.
4. We used to see a lot of C3 and C1 and we do not see that as much because our main attacks were flats and seams. We see a lot more cover 4 and 6 and palms which specifically target those areas, and we get a widened variation of those because of our alignment. This should allow us to run more because the box is light. This is why we run up the middle so much. We tempo when we can identify the defense is in a light box and coverage, we can, in theory take advantage of it.

Our personnel limitations are more on the run blocking side of things. When teams played us single high, we large abused it. NSST, Vandy at times etc
 
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#128
#128
Hooker was faster at reads and deciding when to run and ran the ball well . And we had better WRs . CJH may need help in the talent evaluation department and a O line coach jury is out on a few other coaches . Just my thoughts on the situation . We will see what he has next season .
 
#131
#131
Golesh was not the secret sauce. People didn't see 2022 coming. And ever since, we've tried to duplicate that but failed. Largely because the secret was the offense. Which has now been dissected into many bits and pieces allover youtube since post-season 2022. Now there is no novelty. We need to have excellent talent upfront and a great back or the three deep safety defense will keep a top on this thing forever.
 
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#132
#132
loosecannon said:
It has appeared to be a rigid implementation of the system that is the issue. But, there are significant limitations with the system.
1. Wide splits make middle field crosses exceptionally difficult and make attacking C2 more difficult. A smash concept becomes a really long throw to the hitch, so we in a sense dictate and key what we cannot do. This simplifies things for the defense as well.
2. Half-field routes allow teams to shift coverages and do not hold players over on the backsides. It is like having g a running offense with no misdirection to go along with sweeps and isos.
3. There are a lot of adjustments required for this offense to work. If guys aren’t on the same page, it is dead.
4. We used to see a lot of C3 and C1 and we do not see that as much because our main attacks were flats and seams. We see a lot more cover 4 and 6 and palms which specifically target those areas, and we get a widened variation of those because of our alignment. This should allow us to run more because the box is light. This is why we run up the middle so much. We tempo when we can identify the defense is in a light box and coverage, we can, in theory take advantage of it.

Our personnel limitations are more on the run blocking side of things. When teams played us single high, we large abused it. NSST, Vandy at times etc
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All of this… Also, athletically superior teams that play us without blitzing also take away the receivers’ ability to break off routes into open space. For both Georgia and OSU, we blocked them head to head with no stunts, and still had to leave a tight end or RB in to handle a four man rush. They were able to cover us man to man with both a safety and an additional player free to cover space. With our runs limited to running straight at the light box, we are stuck throwing quick screens into double coverage to test the outside. It was particularly ugly against OSU, because the only play that gave us a player advantage was a designed or undesigned qb run. Hard to watch.
 
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#133
#133
Stoerner Fumbles said:
All of this… Also, athletically superior teams that play us without blitzing also take away the receivers’ ability to break off routes into open space. For both Georgia and OSU, we blocked them head to head with no stunts, and still had to leave a tight end or RB in to handle a four man rush. They were able to cover us man to man with both a safety and an additional player free to cover space. With our runs limited to running straight at the light box, we are stuck throwing quick screens into double coverage to test the outside. It was particularly ugly against OSU, because the only play that gave us a player advantage was a designed or undesigned qb run. Hard to watch.
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Do you think we come into 2025 with more variations of the main scheme or does his stick to his guns? If the latter, we need to pony up for the best OL money can buy.
 
#134
#134
Golfprovol said:
We do not have a coach problem, a system problem, a predictability problem. What we do have is a QB problem. I have explained it a few times in other threads that the QB this year was the issue. Not that Nico is bad or wont be the guy we want him to be, but this year he could not process information fast enough. Same with Joe. Our offense is built to go fast, there is no misdirection, no motion, nothing to move the eyes of the defense. It is made to be fast, so fast that defenses have to mainly play a base.

Our offense slowed down the last 2 years because our QB's could not process what the defense quick enough. This gave the defense time to see our formation and adjust. Nico had predetermined receives to throw the ball to and we ran simple plays because of his processing time and the OL.

When Hendon was here he was a 5th year QB, he could process the information quickly and get us into the right formation and get the ball snapped quick. We ran the same plays then as now, the defense just did not have time to adjust or get lined up correctly.

Think about when Hendon got to the red zone, we slowed down and scoring became much more difficult. In 2022 we were much more deadly from the 40 than we were from the 15.

If Nico gets quicker, our pace gets quicker, and teams will not be able to adjust. 2022 Georgia was 27-13 with a defensive secondary built in the image of a high school team.

If we get Nico to read the defense quicker, or go to someone who can, then we will speed up and these conversations can go away.
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This^ also what a lot of ppl are saying, teams said we knew what they were running etc.,, they said the same thing in 2022 that ppl in this and other threads are saying, (other teams) we knew what they were going to do and we practiced for it just happened so fast we couldn't get set. The difference is a seasoned QB that made quick succinct decisions.
 
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#135
#135
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Georgia, SC last year and OSU this year have all commented that our formation and down dictate play selection. They knew what we were running and all manhandled us. We’re way too predictable and the offense is not novel anymore. It isn’t the loss of Golesh. Heupel called the plays then and now.
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No college system is very complicated, otherwise guys wouldn’t be able to transfer every year and see immediate playing time under a new system. Elite players produce points, not clever plays or play calling
 
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#136
#136
Stoerner Fumbles said:
All of this… Also, athletically superior teams that play us without blitzing also take away the receivers’ ability to break off routes into open space. For both Georgia and OSU, we blocked them head to head with no stunts, and still had to leave a tight end or RB in to handle a four man rush. They were able to cover us man to man with both a safety and an additional player free to cover space. With our runs limited to running straight at the light box, we are stuck throwing quick screens into double coverage to test the outside. It was particularly ugly against OSU, because the only play that gave us a player advantage was a designed or undesigned qb run. Hard to watch.
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If this is all true and Tennessee will never be able to beat good teams with this offensive style is it time to abandon and go with something like Bama or Georgia was running?

I haven't seen the Heupel offense look good since 2022. Yeah we have won games but it's been super ugly with a much higher reliance on tight ends and running backs than wide outs. Almost like plan A isn't working so we invent plan B on the fly.
Maybe they need to admit this offense has been exposed and move on?
 
#137
#137
The Original Fade said:
No college system is very complicated, otherwise guys wouldn’t be able to transfer every year and see immediate playing time under a new system. Elite players produce points, not clever plays or play calling
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This makes me feel even worse because Tennessee isn't recruiting well enough. The whole idea was that Heupel and his offense could save us even with less than elite talent. But if it really is all about just getting the best players then we aren't cutting it when we finish 6th or 7th in the SEC in recruiting.
 
#138
#138
mpfvol said:
Hooker was faster at reads and deciding when to run and ran the ball well . And we had better WRs . CJH may need help in the talent evaluation department and a O line coach jury is out on a few other coaches . Just my thoughts on the situation . We will see what he has next season .
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Hooker was a RS JR in 2021 and a RS SR in 2022.
 
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#139
#139
UTFranklinVol said:
This makes me feel even worse because Tennessee isn't recruiting well enough. The whole idea was that Heupel and his offense could save us even with less than elite talent. But if it really is all about just getting the best players then we aren't cutting it when we finish 6th or 7th in the SEC in recruiting.
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Some of you act like we are still in the Butch Jones era. Good grief.
 
#140
#140
GAV4L said:
Seems like the offense hasn't been the same since he left for USF.
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I do get the sentiment considering what we saw in 22. With that said, it became glaringly obvious over the course of the season the WR room was the weakest we’ve seen in some time along with the Oline being terrible at times. I do think Josh is trying to become more of a “Head Coach” and CEO type, thus giving more of the responsibility to the O-cord for the game planning and play calling, while also playing to team strengths. I can’t blame him for trying to evolve, and I think we will see a bit of a reset this coming year with Nico being a sophomore. My biggest gripe with Josh is his insistence on not playing some of the guys with big potential. Boo got on the field a lot, but Nico should have played over Milton (23) and Matthew’s should have been put out there more this year. All in all Josh is a hell of a ball coach, and he’s a players coach. That’s big in this new era.
 
#145
#145
I don’t understand this logic. Heupel was running successful offenses as an OC before he ever had Golesh on a staff. Makes no sense.
 
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#146
#146
just bob said:
Absolutely. And 4 years now of opposing coaches studying the plays.
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If we had a more competent QB, we could do a lot more with the same plays. Sounds easy, except there are only a handful of these QB’s in the NFL. Nico either needs to become the kid we paid him to be, or we need to change the QB or change the offense.
 
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#147
#147
Watching the Lions offense is like watching an innovative college team. How many times did we even run so much as a reverse this year? We were very vanilla on offense. I wish playcalling would move toward what Oregon is doing on offense. We’re already in similar philosophies.
 
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