Was Lofton really better than Redick?

#26
#26
your bias against Duke is beyond funny bruno. That's where the lol comes in.

Yeah, Redick wasn't feared. That's why he was picked up the moment he came across the half court line. It's the reason he came off screens, ball fakes and everything else to get shots off and bury them in his defender's eye. Because he wasn't feared.
 
#27
#27
but feel free to continue to make your obligatory white boy, pale boy, etc comments about Duke players because it makes you sound bad a** and like you have some sort of inside knowledge. It really helps people with half a clue understand how you come to your silly logic.
 
#28
#28
volfanbill said:
but feel free to continue to make your obligatory white boy, pale boy, etc comments about Duke players because it makes you sound bad a** and like you have some sort of inside knowledge. It really helps people with half a clue understand how you come to your silly logic.
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How in the world does it make him sound like he has inside knowledge. EVERYONE knows Duke is a bunch of awkward pimply white boys.
 
#29
#29
volfanbill said:
your bias against Duke is beyond funny bruno. That's where the lol comes in.

Yeah, Redick wasn't feared. That's why he was picked up the moment he came across the half court line. It's the reason he came off screens, ball fakes and everything else to get shots off and bury them in his defender's eye. Because he wasn't feared.
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Your obsession over the consensus, bandwagon basketball team for adolescent boys across the nation and split allegiances is where the 'lol' comes in for me.

JJ was a great shooter. But, he wasn't a guy that was impossible to stop and couldn't create his own shot - that's why I wouldn't consider him feared. He wasn't going to be a guy that will shoot over you from 4 feet from behind the 3-point line with a hand in his face.

Duke seemed to struggle a lot more when Williams was in foul trouble or shut down. Feared is, in my opinion, knowing something is coming but you can't do anything about it.

And Duke is still a bunch of pale, white boys and always will be.
 
#30
#30
what? You mean a big man gets in foul trouble and it causes teams to struggle? how crazy. That's such a new concept in basketball! I bet you could instantly make the D1 level coaching with that game plan! Someone get him a suit quick!





of course, it also has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter at hand.
 
#31
#31
volfanbill said:
what? You mean a big man gets in foul trouble and it causes teams to struggle? how crazy. That's such a new concept in basketball! I bet you could instantly make the D1 level coaching with that game plan! Someone get him a suit quick!





of course, it also has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter at hand.
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Neither did you whining about people stereotyping (and rightfully so) Duke as a bunch of awkward white boys.
 
#32
#32
volfanbill said:
what? You mean a big man gets in foul trouble and it causes teams to struggle? how crazy. That's such a new concept in basketball! I bet you could instantly make the D1 level coaching with that game plan! Someone get him a suit quick!





of course, it also has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter at hand.
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Sure it doesn't - Shelden Williams was a lot more important to Duke than JJ was and that was pretty evident by how Duke faired when JJ struggled compared to who they faired when Williams struggled - nothing ground breaking. He was more 'feared' than JJ. Set shooters are a lot easier to find.

JJ was hardly feared.
 
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#33
#33
Bassmanbruno said:
Sure it doesn't - Shelden Williams was a lot more important to Duke than JJ was. He was more 'feared' than JJ. Shooters are a lot easier to find.
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that doesn't mean JJ wasn't feared though. No one left JJ open, no matter what the situation.
 
#34
#34
volfanbill said:
that doesn't mean JJ wasn't feared though. No one left JJ open, no matter what the situation.
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I saw him open tons of times - due to the fact they couldn't afford to slack on some of his teammates or after the 10th screen of that possession someone got knocked back or fell down trying to switch or run through it. If he wasn't open tons of times - he would never have become #1 all-time in 3-point shots made. The guy rarely hit contested shots. He had perfect form - and if that was altered, his shot wasn't going in.
 
#35
#35
Bassmanbruno said:
I saw him open tons of times - due to the fact they couldn't afford to slack on some of his teammates or after the 10th screen of that possession someone got knocked back or fell down trying to switch or run through it. If he wasn't open tons of times - he would never have become #1 all-time in 3-point shots made. The guy rarely hit contested shots. He had perfect form - and if that was altered, his shot wasn't going in.
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ridiculous statement. Obviously his numbers went down, but he buried countless shots heavily contested.

also, funny that you won't give him credit for wearing his defender down with his constant movement.
 
#36
#36
Redick was just fine at creating his own shot for his last two years at Duke. People tried to faceguard and he started going by them, which is why he drew so many fouls. He never an easy guard.
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#37
#37
volfanbill said:
ridiculous statement. Obviously his numbers went down, but he buried countless shots heavily contested.

also, funny that you won't give him credit for wearing his defender down with his constant movement.
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I give him credit - but I give a lot of the credit to Coach K for drawing up that many screens to get him open.

Every shooter should bury contested shots occasionally. It was an exaggeration on my part - but he still has nothing on Lofton shooting contested shots - not close really. He's similar to Meeks - his % has gone way down when people have really gotten in his face and he's forced some.
 
#38
#38
BigPapaVol said:
Redick was just fine at creating his own shot for his last two years at Duke. People tried to faceguard and he started going by them, which is why he drew so many fouls. He never an easy guard.
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I know - they over played him or whatever you want to call him so it was easier for him to beat a guy off the dribble and the defender was screwed at that point so the only option was to foul him or give up an easy two.

But - when you say Redick was fine at creating his own shots - do you mean off screens? Because I don't recall too many step back jumpers or ball fakes then step and hit a three.
 
#39
#39
This thread is rather silly now--but Redick and Lofton were /very similar/ players. Both were very good at shooting treys--and truly that was about extent of their games, except that Redick got to the foul line more often (which is very important in basketball). Neither guy was very athletic, and neither was very good at creating shots off the dribble. Neither was a great defender. They were both good but rather one-dimensional players. We see how much UT relied on Lofton's threes. Without a dependable deep shooter, this team struggles.
 
#40
#40
What a joke of a comparison. Hands down, Chris Lofton, all day, every day and twice on Sunday. Look at the starting 5 for both teams, put Lofton on Duke's team and Redick on Tennessee's and the numbers wouldn't even be close.

Not to mention Redick played on the most home friendly referreed court in the nation and I can't count the number of moving screens required to get Redick's circle motion offense to break free of a defender.

I also don't remember Redick coming back from a major life threatening illness before his senior year.
 
#42
#42
Larkin said:
What a joke of a comparison. Hands down, Chris Lofton, all day, every day and twice on Sunday. Look at the starting 5 for both teams, put Lofton on Duke's team and Redick on Tennessee's and the numbers wouldn't even be close.

Not to mention Redick played on the most home friendly referreed court in the nation and I can't count the number of moving screens required to get Redick's circle motion offense to break free of a defender.

I also don't remember Redick coming back from a major life threatening illness before his senior year.
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So Lofton was better because he got cancer and JJ didn't? Absolutely pathetic argument, regardless the source.

And again, while there were several screens, watch again and see just how much Redick creates completely on his own.
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#43
#43
volfanbill said:
So Lofton was better because he got cancer and JJ didn't? Absolutely pathetic argument, regardless the source.

And again, while there were several screens, watch again and see just how much Redick creates completely on his own.
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lofton, but that's my opinion. i see you like reddick, that's your opinion. i wouldn't attack either one. i think larkin was defending some of lofton's senior year performances with the fact that he was battling cancer. chances are you know someone that has battled cancer imagine that person still competing in sec basketball.
 
#46
#46
volfanbill said:
So Lofton was better because he got cancer and JJ didn't? Absolutely pathetic argument, regardless the source.

And again, while there were several screens, watch again and see just how much Redick creates completely on his own.
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....

If we're talking about creating 3-point shots completely on his own - probably about 5-10% of his shots. He literally probably did set a record for most screens for a single player and I'm being serious - not in any way trying to mock it or wear that point down.
 
#47
#47
Yes, he was. Lofton took a mediocre team on his back and took it to respectability, then played a major role on three excellent teams after he got a coach.

You take Redick away from those Duke teams, and Duke gets someone else probably almost as good, and you never know the difference. From my vantage point, here on Tobacco Road where I saw Duke all the time, I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better. Duke took on Redick's persona and depended WAY too much on jump shooting while he was there.

If Lofton never came to UT, I'm not sure Bruce Pearl would have, either. And even if he did, I guarantee you he wouldn't have ever coached a team ranked No. 1 in the nation in his third season, or won 31 games.
 
#48
#48
GAVol said:
I'm pretty sure you know that is not what he meant.
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Why even include it as part of his argument then? No need to play the sympathy card.

JJ had to overcome his love of pot to be good. How's that for tough?
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#49
#49
Redick was a much better offensive player. Those Duke lineups were awful. They had Shelden Williams and Redick at the point Reduck was asked to shoulder the load. Lofton couldn't have done that.

Everyone touting Lofton must believe the enormous foul differential is solely because Duke gets all the calls. That's absurd. We enjoyed an advantage at home and Loftin was our designated shooter, so he had many 10 ft nights. Bottom line was that Redick was big enough to also have a non 3 pointer game ad could draw fouls in the paint. Lofton was smaller and less athletic, so when the jumper wasn't falling, he didn't have other options. Redick did.

This from a Duke fan who didn't like Reduck because of the exposure, poems and generally terrible D.
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#50
#50
Volfanbill, how can you even leave it out of the argument? Lofton had chemotherapy treatments before his senior season that required him to recover, he struggled early on that year as a direct result. After that, it is all conjecture on whether or not his last year would have been better, however any Tennessee fan will tell you that something wasn't right about him the first 10-12 games of the season.

If you are comparing stats objectively it looks pretty even, but I'm still not taking my orange glasses off. Besides, I'm a closet UNC fan and Reddick was a cry baby.
 
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