Waterboarding

#153
#153
KB5252 said:
Iraq is a lot like the US right now and for the past 8 years, divided right down the middle.

Half of the country knows the only thing keeping the crazies from taking over is the presence of the US military. The other half are split between believing we are there to rape the country and those that think they can get on with their lives and make the nation better when we leave. The latter would soon see just how wrong they were if we left and would be screaming for help.
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To be fair, there are more there that see our merits. It's like anything... the vocal minority far outweighs the majority in how it appears from the outside looking in. I would say it's closer to 65% in favor (really depends on your city/neighborhood).

Also, keep in mind that most "insurgents" are not Iraqis..
 
#155
#155
The sooner we get these terrorists tried, executed, and buried next to Timothy McVeigh, the better for everyone, then this can be put to rest.
 
#156
#156
oklavol said:
The sooner we get these terrorists tried, executed, and buried next to Timothy McVeigh, the better for everyone, then this can be put to rest.
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I'll only agree to that if they're buried upside down, soaking in pig blood and wrapped in a nice bacon sarcophagus. Buried in US soil. Pffft.
 
#158
#158
DC Vol said:
If we intervened, they would lose their oil supply as well as a significant investment in the Sudanese oil industry.
If we went into Darfur, we'd gain nothing. We stood to lose a lot if some of the many spin-offs of that intervention happened.

Considering how directly the Chinese are tied in with Darfur, they'd lose it all.
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They would only lose it temporarily. We are not about to break business protocol with them unfortunately.

You also seem to think the US gives a damn what happens to the Chinese when it comes to our interests.
 
#159
#159
I don't want America to torture. It's anathema to our values. The key is to define the term properly. For example, I would not engage in what, by my definition, would be torture. I would, to save even a single American life, waterboard the Pope, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the Easter Bunny.
 
#160
#160
hatvol96 said:
I don't want America to torture. It's anathema to our values. The key is to define the term properly. For example, I would not engage in what, by my definition, would be torture. I would, to save even a single American life, waterboard the Pope, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the Easter Bunny.
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exactly, torture would be making them watch the alabama spelling bee finals
 
#161
#161
hatvol96 said:
I don't want America to torture. It's anathema to our values. The key is to define the term properly. For example, I would not engage in what, by my definition, would be torture. I would, to save even a single American life, waterboard the Pope, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the Easter Bunny.
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Now THAT'S what I'm talking about.
 
#162
#162
oklavol said:
The sooner we get these terrorists tried, executed, and buried next to Timothy McVeigh, the better for everyone, then this can be put to rest.
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If the history of Holder and the top democrats concerning terrorists hold true, there will be pardons to go all around, I'll bet you whatever you want to bet, none will be executed.

No, the present administration seems more interested in prosecuting the past administration over activity that our own special forces undergo in training and then going on a witch hunt for as yet non-existent 'white supremacists.'

Don't stop there, reopen the investigation of the OKC bombing.


Eyewitnesses had identified this Iraqi soldier drinking beer with McVeigh prior to the heartland massacre, seated in the explosives-laden Ryder truck the morning of April 19, descending from that truck in front of the ill-fated Murrah Building, and peeling away from the shattered and burning remains of the federal complex in a brown pickup targeted by federal authorities. Yet for some inexplicable reason, the FBI never questioned Hussaini Al-Hussaini.
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The 9-11 commission recently discussed my book when commissioner John Lehman asked former FBI Director Louis Freeh about the possible Iraqi/Al Qaeda connection to the Oklahoma City bombing.

Lehman boldly asserted that the startling new information contained in The Third Terrorist “begs for further investigation.”

Director Freeh declined to dismiss the notion of foreign complicity in the 1995 terrorist massacre.
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We know that this small-time Kansas farmer of modest means took expensive and unexplained trips to the Philippines, many times without his Filipino mail order bride. The court record reveals the Oklahoma City bomber was in Cebu City in December 1994 at the same time as the mastermind of the first World Trade Center attack, Ramzi Yousef.

According to the sworn statement of the co-founder of the Muslim terrorist group Abu Sayyaf, which is a spin-off organization of Al Qaeda, Terry Nichols and Ramzi Yousef met personally to discuss bomb making in the early 1990’s.

Richard Clarke, President Clinton’s former chief terrorist advisor, disclosed in his new book that the FBI “could never disprove” the theory that the Kansas farmer learned the macabre genius of terrorist bomb making under the training of Philippines-based Al-Qaeda general, Ramzi Yousef. Clarke stated, “We do know that Nichols’ bombs did not work before his Philippine stay and were deadly when he returned.”

Phone records revealed that Nichols received and made a slew (hundreds) of calls to a boarding house in Cebu City, which according to McVeigh’s defense lawyers, sheltered students from a university well known for Islamic militancy. Nichols and McVeigh also made a series of cryptic calls on a phone debit card to untraceable numbers and public pay phones in the Philippines from public pay phones in Kansas in order to cover their trail. Why? That question has never been addressed or answered by the Department of Justice.
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More importantly, the Task Force learned that the Middle Eastern terrorists had recruited two “lily whites” to carry out the bombing of an American federal building. In the lexicon of the intelligence community, the term lily white refers to individuals who have no criminal history and no obvious ties to Middle Eastern terrorist organizations. McVeigh, a decorated Gulf War veteran and Nichols, a farmer and former soldier, both fit that criterion.
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in 1999, I returned to the Bureau, and a very courageous FBI agent, Dan Vogel, took custody of the twenty-two witness affidavits, and passed them up the chain of command to the legal department at the Oklahoma City field office.

From there – the documents simply vanished.
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Oh wait, it was Eric Holder who squelched the FBI investigation and suppressed evidence.

To be fair to all, GW Bush had eight years to straighten that and a myriad of other Clinton deceptions out and did little if anything.

Former CIA director James Woolsey, testified before congressional hearings on the OKC bombing;

"When the full stories of these two incidents (1993 WTC Center bombing and 1995 Oklahoma City bombing) are finally told, those who permitted the investigations to stop short will owe big explanations to these two brave women (Middle East expert Laurie Mylroie and journalist Jayna Davis). And the nation will owe them a debt of gratitude."
- Former CIA Director James Woolsey,
Wall Street Journal, September 5, 2002

Furthermore, what documents did Clinton intelligence adviser Sandy Burglar steal and destroy from the National Archives?? It couldn't have been damning evidence that the White House knew of and covered for muslim extremist terrorist activity here in America????
 
#163
#163
There is a short film you all who are interested need to see. It is called "Fitna",you can google it, I will not bother to post a link because what you will see will be somewhat disturbing, much of it we have already seen over the past 8 years. If after watching this, you do not see the need to be harsh in dealing with prisoners that may very well have info we need to save lives you are lost and there is no hope for you. The film is around 15 minutes long, a must see.
 
#164
#164
hatvol96 said:
I don't want America to torture. It's anathema to our values. The key is to define the term properly. For example, I would not engage in what, by my definition, would be torture. I would, to save even a single American life, waterboard the Pope, Bishop Desmond Tutu, and the Easter Bunny.
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I want everyone on earth to know that being captured by Americans is going to suck as badly as possible.
 
#167
#167
"Abu Zubaydah was water boarded at least 83 times and Khalid Sheikh Mohamed at least 183 times."

ABC should at least give the conflicting report that these numbers are grossly exaggerated.
 
#168
#168
oklavol said:
Pull your head out of the sand. They already can't wait for us to leave in Iraq. We don't have the thanks of anyone over there.
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O really. How many Iraqi citizens have thanked you for being there?
If you can't stand behind our troops, you are certainly welcome to stand in front of us.
 
#171
#171
oklavol said:
Pull your head out of the sand. They already can't wait for us to leave in Iraq. We don't have the thanks of anyone over there.
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You obviously have no clue about what's going on in Iraq. It always amazes me that people will solidify their opinions based on what the media tells them to think instead of from people that have actually worked and developed relationships with the Iraqi's. The truth is the reporting in Iraq is lazy and sensationalized. I can tell you for a fact that there are places in Iraq where Americans are treated like celebrities. In these areas they are so grateful that it's hard to go anywhere because of the crowds that swarm you. Every group that was oppressed under Sadaam (a huge population) are grateful for their liberation.

Even the Shiites are grateful, although they are anxious for us to leave. And rightfully so, you have to realize most of the impressions that part of the world has of Americans comes from MTV and HBO. I'm sure they see us as a threat to their family structure and values. Every one of my young Iraqi interpreters learned to speak English by watching MTV and thought they were gangbangers. Every other word out of their mouth was "I swear to God" or "what's up homey". I know I'd be pissed too if my daughters started acting like that.

Even soldiers that have served in Iraq are going to have conflicting views of Iraq based on where they served and their personal experience. Is Iraq a mess? Absolutely. But every area in Iraq is not like Faluja and Sadr City like the media reporting would lead you to believe. Every province, city, and even every tribe has it's own dynamics and it's own issues. Even down to the local farmer that's just trying to do what he can to survive.

You just can't make blanket statements like everyone hates us because even guys that shoot at us may just be trying to make a buck to feed his family. We've captured guys that placed one IED for $15. It may be the only time they do it, and the main reason wasn't because they hated Americans. They simply needed $15. Can you imagine being so desperate that you'd risk your life for $15. I have a lot of mixed emotions about Iraqi's, but mostly... I just feel sorry for them.
 
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#174
#174
red butler said:
You obviously have no clue about what's going on in Iraq. It always amazes me that people will solidify their opinions based on what the media tells them to think instead of from the people that have actually worked and developed relationships with the Iraqi's. The truth is the reporting in Iraq is lazy and sensationalized. I can tell you for a fact that there are places in Iraq where Americans are treated like celebrities. In these areas they are so grateful that it's hard to go anywhere because of the crowds that swarm you. Every group that was oppressed under Sadaam (a huge population) are grateful for their liberation.

Even the Shiites are grateful even though they are anxious for us to leave. And rightfully so, you have to realize most of the impressions that part of the world has of Americans comes from MTV and HBO. I'm sure they see us as a threat to their family structure and values. Every one of my young Iraqi interpreters learned to speak English by watching MTV and thought they were gangbangers. Every other word out of their mouth was "I swear to God" or "what's up homey". I know I'd be pissed too if my daughters started acting like that.

Even soldiers that have served in Iraq are going to have conflicting views of Iraq based on where they served and their personal experience. Is Iraq a mess? Absolutely. But every area in Iraq is not like Faluja and Sadr City like the media reporting would lead you to believe. Every province, city, and even every tribe has it's own dynamics and it's own issues. Even down to the local farmer that's just trying to do what he can to survive.

You just can't make blanket statements like everyone hates us because even guys that shoot at us may just be trying to make a buck to feed his family. We've captured guys that placed one IED for $15. It may be the only time they do it, and the main reason wasn't because they hated Americans. They simply needed $15. Can you imagine being so desperate that you'd risk your life for $15. I have a lot of mixed emotions about Iraqi's, but mostly... I just feel sorry for them.
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hats off to you sir. Its people like you, that give people the right to complain and b**ch about stuff they know nothing about because the news plays an angle that will get people to buy their paper, or watch their garbage show. ive had several friends over there, and lost one.. Thank you for your service.
 
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