Waterboarding

#126
#126
DC Vol said:
It'll work itself out, eventually, but the problem we would have is this:
Finger-in-the-worlds-cookie-jar folks would be complaining about the civil wars going on and why we're not doing anything to stop it.

Getting in that mess is about as rational as stopping a pit bull and a rottweiler in a fight with a steak.
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let them know we have no problem with them going in and policing the situation.
 
#128
#128
DC Vol said:
It'll work itself out, eventually, but the problem we would have is this:
Finger-in-the-worlds-cookie-jar folks would be complaining about the civil wars going on and why we're not doing anything to stop it.

Getting in that mess is about as rational as stopping a pit bull and a rottweiler in a fight with a steak.
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If we can somehow justify staying out of Africa and the holocaust that is going on there, I'm sure we could do the same with the ME.

Let the cookie jar people complain all they want, IMO.
 
#129
#129
rjd970 said:
If we can somehow justify staying out of Africa and the holocaust that is going on there, I'm sure we could do the same with the ME.

Let the cookie jar people complain all they want, IMO.
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Possible war with China is why we didn't go into the Sudan. Darfur is much more complicated than just a genocide.

I'm in the same boat as you though. It shouldn't be up to the US to undo all of the world's "human nature". That's certainly not what I would imagine the writers of the Constitution would want.
 
#130
#130
DC Vol said:
Possible war with China is why we didn't go into the Sudan. Darfur is much more complicated than just a genocide.

I'm in the same boat as you though. It shouldn't be up to the US to undo all of the world's "human nature". That's certainly not what I would imagine the writers of the Constitution would want.
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China will not risk a war with us over Darfur.
 
#134
#134
rjd970 said:
If we can somehow justify staying out of Africa and the holocaust that is going on there, I'm sure we could do the same with the ME.

Let the cookie jar people complain all they want, IMO.
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sure, let's drop 180 thousand US troops in the middle of The Sudan and let them start killing those responsible for the genocidal activities going on in Darfur.

what, exactly, would that get us? Sure, we'd have the thanks of all those whose lives we saved, but we have that in Iraq, and critics of the war there could care less.
 
#135
#135
MontereyVol said:
China will not risk a war with us over Darfur.
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So they wouldn't care if we cut off ~5% of their oil supply? Maybe not then and there, but that would have ignited several paths that analysts had predicted could capitulate with war.

Irregardless, intervention in Darfur was seen as a black hole even if China didn't get involved.
 
#136
#136
MG1968 said:
sure, let's drop 180 thousand US troops in the middle of The Sudan and let them start killing those responsible for the genocidal activities going on in Darfur.

what, exactly, would that get us? Sure, we'd have the thanks of all those whose lives we saved, but we have that in Iraq, and critics of the war there could care less.
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Well, we intervened in Somalia, and it's practically a resort nation now.
 
#138
#138
DC Vol said:
Well, we intervened in Somalia, and it's practically a resort nation now.
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not really. it started as a humanitarian effort to get food supplies in to starving people. Clinton escalated it to direct conflict with the local warlords, then chickened out when our troops asked for heavier weapons.

Blackhawk Down happened not long afterwards.
 
#139
#139
MG1968 said:
sure, let's drop 180 thousand US troops in the middle of The Sudan and let them start killing those responsible for the genocidal activities going on in Darfur.

what, exactly, would that get us? Sure, we'd have the thanks of all those whose lives we saved, but we have that in Iraq, and critics of the war there could care less.
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I never advocated doing anything in Africa.
 
#141
#141
MG1968 said:
not really. it started as a humanitarian effort to get food supplies in to starving people. Clinton escalated it to direct conflict with the local warlords, then chickened out when our troops asked for heavier weapons.

Blackhawk Down happened not long afterwards.
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I couldn't have been more sarcastic.
 
#142
#142
MG1968 said:
what, exactly, would that get us? Sure, we'd have the thanks of all those whose lives we saved, but we have that in Iraq, and critics of the war there could care less.
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Pull your head out of the sand. They already can't wait for us to leave in Iraq. We don't have the thanks of anyone over there.
 
#143
#143
oklavol said:
Pull your head out of the sand. They already can't wait for us to leave in Iraq. We don't have the thanks of anyone over there.
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then why is your hero, Obama, going to leave 50 thousand troops in Iraq?
 
#144
#144
DC Vol said:
So they wouldn't care if we cut off ~5% of their oil supply? Maybe not then and there, but that would have ignited several paths that analysts had predicted could capitulate with war.

Irregardless, intervention in Darfur was seen as a black hole even if China didn't get involved.
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Who is to say they would lose that oil supply. Sure they would rail at the UN but China could care less about it, they would use it to their advantage though.
 
#145
#145
MontereyVol said:
Who is to say they would lose that oil supply. Sure they would rail at the UN but China could care less about it, they would use it to their advantage though.
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If we intervened, they would lose their oil supply as well as a significant investment in the Sudanese oil industry.
If we went into Darfur, we'd gain nothing. We stood to lose a lot if some of the many spin-offs of that intervention happened.

Considering how directly the Chinese are tied in with Darfur, they'd lose it all.
 
#149
#149
oklavol said:
Pull your head out of the sand. They already can't wait for us to leave in Iraq. We don't have the thanks of anyone over there.
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Iraq is a lot like the US right now and for the past 8 years, divided right down the middle.

Half of the country knows the only thing keeping the crazies from taking over is the presence of the US military. The other half are split between believing we are there to rape the country and those that think they can get on with their lives and make the nation better when we leave. The latter would soon see just how wrong they were if we left and would be screaming for help.
 
#150
#150
Wow, diversity, who would have ever thought?

Note- I bet if you brought a stastitic in to it, okvol would believe it as being spoken from God.
 
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