We Can't Challenge The U.S. Military

#126
#126
And why do you suppose cruise missiles and drones are used BEFORE these "quick strikes" from carriers? The Top Gun era is over.

There's a reason France had to have the US soften everything up with cruise missiles before their carrier could begin operations.
 
#128
#128
IPorange said:
And why do you suppose cruise missiles and drones are used BEFORE these "quick strikes" from carriers? The Top Gun era is over.

There's a reason France had to have the US soften everything up with cruise missiles before their carrier could begin operations.
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Both are quick, the point is that the U.S. Navy is not going to give up it's aerial power any time soon.
 
#129
#129
vol4eva said:
Unless your talking about the new amphibs their building, I don't see how we can provide quick aerial strike capability without the carriers. Until they can come up with a innovative next gen way to provide sea based aerial power the carriers will be here awhile.
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The new DD-21's are being developed to launch and recover multiple drones. The Navy is moving whole sale into smaller ships with smaller crews with more firepower. They are already in the testing stages of drones being launched from submarines.

The reason Battleships became extinct was the advent of the cruise missile which made them obsolete. The same reasons will make carriers obsolete. Two or Three Zumwalt class destroyers would deliver a better air-wing than any Carrier could ever provide. We could build 15 Zumwalts for the price of a single carrier. Add to that, manning would be roughly a third of a Carrier, less expensive to maintain and much easier Maintenance periods.

The only reasons to see Carriers in 50 years would be because people are too scared to get rid of them.

The Enterprise is being decommed in October 2012. It has one last deployment. The Navy is going to a 10 Carrier fleet.
 
#130
#130
The new Zumwalt destroyers will be very advanced but they are not being built to carry fighters, only several helicopters. Congress has only called for 3 to be produced at 3.3 billion a pop.

I know the Navy is building the X-47 drone to be carrier launched. Actually later this year is when the first ever carrier drone launch will take place. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see drones eventually launch from destroyers or subs. The military is investing heavily in drones.

Your right the Enterprise is set to be decommed in the next couple of years. It is going to be replaced though by the USS Gerald Ford in '15. The new Ford class is going to have improved technologies and reduced crews compared to the Nimitz class. It is also supposed to have reduced costs over its lifetime.
 
#131
#131
I'm not sure you are reading your Navy Times correctly. If you think we have never launched a drone off a carrier you are mistaken, hell we have launched drones from destroyers as far back as 2007.

Unless money falls from the sky, the Enterprise will decom October of next year. The Ford was originally slated to replace the Enterprise but will not come in for trials until 2015. In that time span another carrier will be placed on the decom list. We plan on staying at 10 carriers.

The prototype Zumwalt is expensive but the following ships of its class will bring down the price and it has three different styles that are going to be produced. The one you are talking about is designed for littoral combat which means the Navy would be going in a different direction than using Carriers.
 
#132
#132
The X-47B is slated to be the first unmanned aircraft to ever launch and land aboard an aircraft carrier. I don't know what you've been reading.

Nimitz class carriers have 50 year service lives. The Nimitz won't be decommed until the early 20's. By that time the second Ford class carrier will be under construction. There will be small increments of time where there will be only 10 carriers. Each new Ford class carrier is slated to replace a Nimitz.

The DD-21 got cancelled and evolved into the DDG-1000. There is only one variant being developed which is used in land attack and fire support. I don't know where you get that just because it can operate in the littorals means the Navy is moving away from carriers. They've actually already developed two littoral combat ships which have been commissioned.
 
#133
#133
vol4eva said:
The X-47B is slated to be the first unmanned aircraft to ever launch and land aboard an aircraft carrier. I don't know what you've been reading.
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It's not and I have been on board for it. It may be the first X-47B to launch from a ship, but it definitely isn't the first UAV to launch (and recover) from a carrier or a smaller ship.

Nimitz class carriers have 50 year service lives. The Nimitz won't be decommed until the early 20's. By that time the second Ford class carrier will be under construction. There will be small increments of time where there will be only 10 carriers. Each new Ford class carrier is slated to replace a Nimitz.
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Watch how fast those new ones on the drawing board are going to disappear. I won't, and cannot get into a discussion about which carrier so I will have to leave it at that. The Enterprise being decomed is out there for you to see, it is slated for a 2012 decom. One of the CNO's big projects is the 10 carrier law.

The DD-21 got cancelled and evolved into the DDG-1000. There is only one variant being developed which is used in land attack and fire support. I don't know where you get that just because it can operate in the littorals means the Navy is moving away from carriers. They've actually already developed two littoral combat ships which have been commissioned.
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Close, but its not even called that anymore. There are three variants of the new warship class. One of which is littoral, another would be one that launches 'what they are hoping' is up to 100 UAV's. I can only talk of stuff that is unclass so I will stick with what most people still call it anyway and that's Zumwalt or DD-21.

I get that because that is what Littoral does. It is developed for future war missions and goes where Carriers cannot while being just as dangerous. Dark Blue warfare will be moving to subs and ships that can hunt subs.
 
#134
#134
Oh look, the I have a high security clearance so I know more than you do angle. It's typical.....Like I said though, unless there are huge spending cuts to reduce the carrier fleet(which could happen) or they come up with a new innovative approach to sea based air power the carriers will be here.

Again, the Zumwalts will not have different variants.
 
#135
#135
vol4eva said:
Oh look, the I have a high security clearance so I know more than you do angle. It's typical.....Like I said though, unless there are huge spending cuts to reduce the carrier fleet(which could happen) or they come up with a new innovative approach to sea based air power the carriers will be here.

Again, the Zumwalts will not have different variants.
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Never said anything about my clearance but you would have to admit, for me to get in the realm of proving you wrong I would be breaking Classified info. Everything I have posted is one google search away.

You finally nailed it though with "unless there are huge spending cuts to reduce the carrier fleet" maybe now you can understand.

You do realize there are different variants to the Spruance and Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers correct. They are not all the same.
 
#136
#136
MontereyVol said:
Never said anything about my clearance but you would have to admit, for me to get in the realm of proving you wrong I would be breaking Classified info. Everything I have posted is one google search away.

You finally nailed it though with "unless there are huge spending cuts to reduce the carrier fleet" maybe now you can understand.

You do realize there are different variants to the Spruance and Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers correct. They are not all the same.
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Like I said, typical....I find it humorous you pulled that card.


There will still be carrier operations 50 years from now.
Currently the Navy intends to operate an 11 carrier fleet until further notice. This of course with small time periods between replacements.

How is the Spruance relevant? No one is comparing the Burkes to the Zumwalt. Again, for the 53rd time, there will be no variant to the Zumwalt class. All three Zumwalts will have the same structure and technologies.
 
#137
#137
Naval warfare has been obsolete for twenty years, now. The only operational mission for the current Navy, as I see it, to to provide a portable aerial landing platform. Unless the US can be assured of permanent basing rights around the world, this will remain the Navy's top mission and hence carriers will stick around.

All my opinions, of course.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#138
#138
therealUT said:
Naval warfare has been obsolete for twenty years, now. The only operational mission for the current Navy, as I see it, to to provide a portable aerial landing platform. Unless the US can be assured of permanent basing rights around the world, this will remain the Navy's top mission and hence carriers will stick around.

All my opinions, of course.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Although I disagree about naval warfare being irrelevant, I agree that the military considers sea based aerial power a top priority. Carriers are not going anywhere...they certainly won't be "phased out" anytime soon.
 
#140
#140
IPorange said:
I'm pretty sure MontereyVol is right on the money, in regards to drones.
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Drones will not be the primary TAC Air platform until every ground unit is equipped with the communications equipment to consistently speak with the operator in real-time.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#141
#141
IPorange said:
I'm pretty sure MontereyVol is right on the money, in regards to drones.
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I've read many reports on the X-47, but I went straight to the site of the company that develops it. It specifically says that the, "X-47 is the first unmanned jet designed to take off from and land on an aircraft carrier." It's right on the front page of northrop grummans site. Just click on the 2...
 
#143
#143
Another cool drone, is the stealthy RQ-107 Sentinel. It's not an offensive platform but it reportedly assisted in the Bin Laden raid. It supposedly flew over Pakistan for several months gathering intel without ever being detected. The Air Force barely acknowledges it exists...
 
#144
#144
vol4eva said:
Like I said, typical....I find it humorous you pulled that card.


There will still be carrier operations 50 years from now.
Currently the Navy intends to operate an 11 carrier fleet until further notice. This of course with small time periods between replacements.

How is the Spruance relevant? No one is comparing the Burkes to the Zumwalt. Again, for the 53rd time, there will be no variant to the Zumwalt class. All three Zumwalts will have the same structure and technologies.
Click to expand...

All military members have a clearance, sorry if you think I am pulling mine when I tell you I cannot get too deep into a discussion on a public unclass website about ship movements.

Carriers will not be like what you think they will be in 50 to 100 years.

Go ahead and do the work, take a look at the USS Paul F Foster and the USS Fife, both Sprucans and tell me what the differences are. No two ships in the Navy are exactly alike in tech so that's wrong. The above comparison will prove the structural argument.
 
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#145
#145
therealUT said:
Drones will not be the primary TAC Air platform until every ground unit is equipped with the communications equipment to consistently speak with the operator in real-time.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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By ground unit are you referring to ships? If so, Aegis (tied with SPY-1 radar comm suite) is the communication you are looking for.
 
#146
#146
vol4eva said:
I've read many reports on the X-47, but I went straight to the site of the company that develops it. It specifically says that the, "X-47 is the first unmanned jet designed to take off from and land on an aircraft carrier." It's right on the front page of northrop grummans site. Just click on the 2...
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You really should not take a contractors web site too seriously. Their job is to promote themselves.
 
#147
#147
May 19th, 2011

And so what we have done is to address our major investments in our submarine force, where we're building -- and this year we moved to two a year from one a year -- nuclear attack submarines; designing the new ballistic missile submarines that will be in service until 2080 -- start building in 2019; putting in place shipbuilding programs, such as the littoral combat ship for maritime security, antisubmarine warfare, mine warfare, that are able to move quickly and operate in areas -- in littoral areas, because that's the other trend that's going to be upon us is the compression of populations to the coast, to the littoral areas. Most of the mega-cities are going to be in that littoral band, and so being able to operate in close, being able to operate with other navies and maritime forces in that region is going to be very important. That's the littoral combat ship.

Technology marches ahead, and so for that reason, we are heavily focused on integrated air and missile defense. Proliferation of ballistic missiles has been extraordinary, and the Navy not only has been put on point, if you will, or in the lead for maritime ballistic missiles, and so we're also putting our system ashore in -- most recently announced in Romania, and that will be manned by Navy because of our expertise in that particular field.

In aviation we know that we have to move into fifth-generation aircraft -- (inaudible) -- sophisticated air defense systems. We know that with the proliferation of submarines globally -- the number is increasing, and it's not just China -- the ability to be out over the water, to be able to monitor those types of things will have to be addressed. And then we're moving pretty aggressively into unmanned systems, because one of the other pressures that we have to deal with is the cost of manpower as we go forward and how do you control the number of people that you need going forward.

So that's, in a nutshell, the major elements of the fleet that we are putting together.
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-CNO
 
#148
#148
MontereyVol said:
All military members have a clearance, sorry if you think I am pulling mine when I tell you I cannot get too deep into a discussion on a public unclass website about ship movements.

Carriers will not be like what you think they will be in 50 to 100 years.

Go ahead and do the work, take a look at the USS Paul F Foster and the USS Fife, both Sprucans and tell me what the differences are. No two ships in the Navy are exactly alike in tech so that's wrong. The above comparison will prove the structural argument.
Click to expand...

The way you've sounded you might as well have been working on classified projects. Your running in circles now...

For the last time carriers will be here, unless they decide to go smaller with the amphibs or they design a new way to transport air wings.

Ships do undergo block upgrades, but all 3 Zumwalts will have similar structure, tech, and armament subject to upgrades throughout its lifespan. The certainly won't be launching fighters or 100 drones.
 
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