What are your expectations now?

[Sandvol]

I agree 100%. If this team had a healthy Diamond DeShields, this crisis conversation is not happening. Let's not forget, Nared showed great promise last season. It is a bummer her sophomore campaign is delayed by a broken hand. She could also provide some extra offensive spark.

I'd love to see substantial improvements in the players from year to year under Holly. I think she did better last year. This year hasn't started too well. I'm not in panic mode yet.

 

[Sandvol]

Listen, I would love for Tennessee to reach the championship game and win it all. I'd like nothing more than that. I don't like losses any more than the next fan, but I don't have a complete meltdown when they happen because I can see beyond the moment. I think this team, if healthy, has all the pieces to make the Final Four. I will be disappointed if they don't. However, I won't demand that Holly lose her job if they only reach the Elite Eight or the Sweet Sixteen. Why? Because I know sometimes s*** happens, and that s*** isn't always the coach's fault. Injuries, for example. Or an off-shooting night. Or a player who has something going on in her life outside of basketball that affects her game performance. I hope they make it to the Final Four, and I hope they win it all. If they don't, life will go on. It's just a basketball game.

Again, if it's just a basketball game why compete? And, again, it's always the coach's fault. I guess we'll just agree to disagree-different viewpoints and I'll continue to post what I think about Holly and her coaching.

 

[GameTime]

Listen, I would love for Tennessee to reach the championship game and win it all. I'd like nothing more than that. I don't like losses any more than the next fan, but I don't have a complete meltdown when they happen because I can see beyond the moment. I think this team, if healthy, has all the pieces to make the Final Four. I will be disappointed if they don't. However, I won't demand that Holly lose her job if they only reach the Elite Eight or the Sweet Sixteen. Why? Because I know sometimes s*** happens, and that s*** isn't always the coach's fault. Injuries, for example. Or an off-shooting night. Or a player who has something going on in her life outside of basketball that affects her game performance. I hope they make it to the Final Four, and I hope they win it all. If they don't, life will go on. It's just a basketball game.

Uh oh, Now you did it....You showed there is a good girl in there after all....Good post Ms. Ivey.

 

[madtownvol]

I'm sorry. That is what is expected at Tennessee. That is our tradition. Holly knew that when she took the job. She said so herself.

The thing is when you look at legendary programs, run by legendary coaches, there is often a major drop off when the legend retires.

UCLA after Wooden
Kentucky after Rupp
The pack after Lombardi.
The Celtics after Auerbach

I could go on. Program tradition does not mean that much to recruits (unless the tradition is embodied in the coach); it is more about the current coach and where the team is at. Again, yes CPS was ailing in her final years but she would have been fired by this same standard.

I remember back in the day when everyone demanded the Don Devoe (Mr. annual 20 wins and NCAA tournament) in place of someone who could take the vols to the next level. And in came Wade Houston and the LVs definitely went to another level but not in the direction fans had hoped.

I understand the calls for holly's proverbial when placed in light of NC expectations. However, her capacity yo maintain an .800+ record and wining SEC titles while coping with a slew of injuries to key players, should not be lightly dismissed

 

[ivyleague]

Again, if it's just a basketball game why compete?

Well, what is it if it isn't just a basketball game? It's fun and entertaining, and the competition is part of that, but it's not anything to get bent out of shape over.

And, again, it's always the coach's fault.

This is a ridiculous statement to me. It is sometimes the coach's fault, but it is absolutely NOT "always" the coach's fault. To say that absolves the players, the athletic department, and sheer fate of any responsibility whatsoever. That's not reasonable.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree-different viewpoints and I'll continue to post what I think about Holly and her coaching.

As will I.

 

[ivyleague]

Uh oh, Now you did it....You showed there is a good girl in there after all....Good post Ms. Ivey.

Thank you. I respect and engage seriously with people who are reasonable. I don't tolerate unreasonable people or unreasonable views well and tend to let my sarcasm and ire flow freely when engaging with them.

 

[Sandvol]

This is a ridiculous statement to me. It is sometimes the coach's fault, but it is absolutely NOT "always" the coach's fault. To say that absolves the players, the athletic department, and sheer fate of any responsibility whatsoever. That's not reasonable.

Of course it is. Your position means no one is accountable.

As I will.

And, you'll be ignored if you keep arrogantly insulting everyone.

 

[Sandvol]

I'll have more thoughts later but I feel a bit sad and discouraged. A game can be close and you can win and look good. But unfortunately I thought we looked bad and we have too much talent to look that bad.

Now, away from the diversion and back to the thread and a post I wanted to respond to. It is somewhat discouraging. This is Holly's third full year. We need to see some continued improvement especially with the talent we have. Think of it we have a freshman point guard playing over two girls from last year. We also have Mercedes and Diamond. If this team doesn't make it to the Final Four it will be a major failure for Holly.

 

[ivyleague]

Of course it is. Your position means no one is accountable.

So, when a student fails, it is always the teacher's fault? When a patient dies, it is always the doctor's fault? When a child grows up to be a delinquent, it is always the parents' fault? When it comes to sports, the coach is accountable, but so are the players, the AD, and in large part, so is good (or bad) luck. Sometimes things happen that are beyond a coach's control. You don't consider that an option, but you should. To not consider factors beyond the coach is shortsighted and unreasonable.

And, you'll be ignored if you keep arrogantly insulting everyone.

So ignore me. *shrug*

 

[brassie]

The coach is the captain of the ship. The OOD might be the guy to run it aground but it always is the Captain's responsibility.

It's not about fault - it's about responsibility and accountability. Coaches get canned all the time when their teams fail to meet expectations.

 

[gule]

Well, you're posting here, aren't you?

okay, now That was funny.

 

[Sandvol]

So, when a student fails, it is always the teacher's fault? When a patient dies, it is always the doctor's fault? When a child grows up to be a delinquent, it is always the parents' fault? When it comes to sports, the coach is accountable, but so are the players, the AD, and in large part, so is good (or bad) luck. Sometimes things happen that are beyond a coach's control. You don't consider that an option, but you should. To not consider factors beyond the coach is shortsighted and unreasonable.

Those aren't correct analogies. A coach is more like the captain of the ship. If the ship sinks it is the captain's fault period. He is responsible for everything that happens to the ship. Also, doctors, teachers, parents aren't leading teams in the competitive arena. Some things are individual. But, a coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens to the team. That is the way it is.

So ignore me. *shrug*

I will...whatever.

 

[Sandvol]

The coach is the captain of the ship. The OOD might be the guy to run it aground but it always is the Captain's responsibility.

It's not about fault - it's about responsibility and accountability. Coaches get canned all the time when their teams fail to meet expectations.

Oh wow, Officer of the Deck. Yes, Captains get canned even when his Officer of the Deck grounds the ship.

 

[ivyleague]

Those aren't correct analogies. A coach is more like the captain of the ship. If the ship sinks it is the captain's fault period. He is responsible for everything that happens to the ship. Also, doctors, teachers, parents aren't leading teams in the competitive arena. Some things are individual. But, a coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens to the team. That is the way it is.

Those are perfect analogies. You just choose not to consider them. The teacher-student analogy is particularly apropos. Teachers are ultimately in charge of student performance, which is showcased in the competitive arena of standardized testing, but the fact is, it isn't always a teacher's fault when a student (or an entire class) fails. There are many factors that contribute to failure (or loss). If a team loses because four key players are injured, how is that the coach's fault? If a key player's mind isn't in the game because she just found out her mother has cancer or that her significant other is cheating or that she failed an important test that may affect her grade in a particular class and ultimately impact her academic eligibility, how is that the coach's fault? If five players are suffering from the flu, how is that the coach's fault? The point is, everything is not the coach's fault. To say it is is unreasonable.

I will...whatever.

LOL

 

[ivyleague]

Notre Dame beat scrubby South Dakota State by a measly 11 points. Louisville is only ahead of Western Kentucky by 3 points at the beginning of the 4th quarter. They could easily drop to 0-2.

Fire McGraw and Walz immediately! Oh, and Mulkey. Baylor only won by 3 points the other night.

 

[gule]

In Ivy's world everybody gets a trophy, because to hold out for excellence is bad...

 

[ivyleague]

In Ivy's world everybody gets a trophy, because to hold out for excellence is bad...

Point out where I said that.

 

[Trixietrouble]

Sandvol, I think in her short time here, one way or another, she has managed to insult all of us....

Based on your avatar, whenever you are in a debate, you should always reply with:

"Well, like that's your opinion, maaaan..."

 

[volcrazy89]

Sandvol, I think in her short time here, one way or another, she has managed to insult all of us....

It's what she does. She talks the part well, but she admitted elsewhere she's just a make-believe badass because she said she doesn't act this way in person. (Even so, I'd be willing to bet she's extremely arrogant and full of herself in real life, as well, even if she's not the insult-slinger that she is here. So I highly doubt she has many, if any, real friends in her life.) That's the difference between people like her and me. I'm just as snarky in real life as I am on this message board and elsewhere. I also don't try to shove my arrogance down people's throat (if it ever comes off that way, I apologize) and I don't speak on a subject unless I know what I'm talking about. I'm happy with my life and have a good job with a nice family and good core of friends. All she can do is talk about how people are wrong and they are stupid because she doesn't share the same viewpoint ... as if this world (or even this message board) revolves around what she thinks. But ... she can't back up anything she says with any kind of substantial discussion, facts or analysis. She talks about how educated she is -- and education and intelligence aren't close to being the same thing -- but she obviously lacks common sense in the worst way. This isn't surprising, as people who are highly "book-smart" tend to lack common sense and social skills. Especially those who have to constantly point out how smart they are. They lack the common sense to understand that everyone is simply rolling their eyes at them and laughing at them.

I mean literally ... I've never seen her post where she wasn't insulting someone, and/or starting drama with someone who isn't kissing her boo's ass (Holly), and/or talking about how important/smart she is. If you have to constantly point out your importance and intelligence to people ... odds are you're not that important and you're not that intelligent. (In layman's terms ... you ain't sh**, so don't think otherwise.) Your demeanor and what you say should be enough to make people understand that you know what you're talking about. Ramming your own arrogance down other people's throats does no good to anyone. If someone wants to be a jerk who's full of themselves, that's certainly their prerogative, but they are the ones who have to lay their heads down at night knowing they're a pathetic human being.

I'd bet she drives a Prius, too.

 

[ivyleague]

It's what she does. She talks the part well, but she admitted elsewhere she's just a make-believe badass because she said she doesn't act this way in person. (Even so, I'd be willing to bet she's extremely arrogant and full of herself in real life, as well, even if she's not the insult-slinger that she is here. So I highly doubt she has many, if any, real friends in her life.) That's the difference between people like her and me. I'm just as snarky in real life as I am on this message board and elsewhere. I also don't try to shove my arrogance down people's throat (if it ever comes off that way, I apologize) and I don't speak on a subject unless I know what I'm talking about. I'm happy with my life and have a good job with a nice family and good core of friends. All she can do is talk about how people are wrong and they are stupid because she doesn't share the same viewpoint ... as if this world (or even this message board) revolves around what she thinks. But ... she can't back up anything she says with any kind of substantial discussion, facts or analysis. She talks about how educated she is -- and education and intelligence aren't close to being the same thing -- but she obviously lacks common sense in the worst way. This isn't surprising, as people who are highly "book-smart" tend to lack common sense and social skills. Especially those who have to constantly point out how smart they are. They lack the common sense to understand that everyone is simply rolling their eyes at them and laughing at them.

I mean literally ... I've never seen her post where she wasn't insulting someone, and/or starting drama with someone who isn't kissing her boo's ass (Holly), and/or talking about how important/smart she is. If you have to constantly point out your importance and intelligence to people ... odds are you're not that important and you're not that intelligent. (In layman's terms ... you ain't sh**, so don't think otherwise.) Your demeanor and what you say should be enough to make people understand that you know what she's talking about. Ramming your own arrogance down other people's throats does no good to anyone. If someone wants to be a jerk who's full of themselves, that's certainly their prerogative, but they are the ones who have to lay their heads down at night knowing they're a pathetic human being.

I'd bet she drives a Prius, too.

Are you mad? You certainly sound perturbed.

Actually, my life is lovely. I have a small but wonderful and loyal circle of friends (I am a classic introvert and don't need or want to be surrounded by hordes of people); I have an amazing partner; I have a great career that allows me to enjoy what I do while supporting myself well; and I have a large but close-knit family for which I am eternally thankful. So whatever you may think about my "pathetic" life, I can guarantee you are wrong. I have no problem sleeping at night. If you are as snarky in real life as you are here, I seriously doubt you have anyone who wants to be around you for any length of time. But then, I guess there's always Kendra Davis to fall back on when that happens.

Oh, and I drive a BMW X5. So, you are once again wrong.

 

[ivyleague]

She talks the part well, but she admitted elsewhere she's just a make-believe badass because she said she doesn't act this way in person. (

I'm polite in person because I was raised correctly.

 

[GameTime]

Based on your avatar, whenever you are in a debate, you should always reply with:

"Well, like that's your opinion, maaaan..."

Now that made me laugh out loud...still laughing. I'm half afraid someone will be beating up my corvette.

Got to enjoy all of this....

 

[governmentmule]

well who cares what she drives ? and ya'll are getting a little bit to personal on your attacks on each other,I don't mind a good friendly debate,which is what this board is about

we are all Lady Vol fans obviously and have many different opinions,whether we like it or not, please try and keep it civil in here,it is starting to look like the Football forum

which isn't a good thing

 

[Trixietrouble]

So much fighting and discord in this thread. :disappointed:

For you Dave Barry fans out there, he is really funny but has gained some simple wisdom in his years.

There are a variety of places to find it such as 15 Things It Took Dave Barry 50 Years To Learn.

Some of that wisdom is funny: "Never lick a steak knife".

Others too true: "People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want
you to share yours with them."

But relevant to this thread, I present this one: "A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice
person. (This is very important. Pay attention. It never fails.)"

I would like to think we could share our individual opinions with each other without engaging in personal attacks. It makes us look like bad people, and I think the folks on this board are good people.

[End of post: goes to run and hide....]

 

[ivyleague]

Louisville is 0-2 to start the season. Both losses have come at the hands of unranked teams.

The grass isn't always greener.