What belief grounds you the most to your party?

#127
#127
KB5252 said:
And this has been confirmed by who?(Not being sarcastic)
Click to expand...

In all seriousness, search "Frontline Bush's War". You can watch the two part series on the web in segments. It does a very good job in laying out what was known by whom and when. It's mostly interviews, so as TennNC said earlier, it's from the horse's mouth.
 
#129
#129
I dont have a party , both sides use their reputations for their own gain and imo there is little difference between the two . I will vote , but it will be for the one that I think will do the best job , not whether they're an ass or an elephant .
 
#130
#130
Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

All things being semi equal guess who I'm rooting for.
 
#131
#131
TIGER DEN said:
I dont have a party , both sides use their reputations for their own gain and imo there is little difference between the two . I will vote , but it will be for the one that I think will do the best job , not whether they're an ass or an elephant .
Click to expand...
:popcorn:
 
#132
#132
allvol123 said:
It amazes me that anyone takes "intelligence" as gospel in either direction. The enemy does not give it to you on a silver platter. At best it is an estimate that you are reasonably comfortable about being correct about.
Click to expand...

Pre 9-11 intel is a prime example of not being proactive when you get intel. Good point.
 
#133
#133
tim said:
Pre 9-11 intel is a prime example of not being proactive when you get intel. Good point.
Click to expand...

Without question. That debate was over years ago. Everyone agrees the Bush Admin completely ignored the information on OBL. He was so focused on getting Sadam for trying to knock off his ol man, he didn't even see the real threat.
 
#134
#134
UT IE 95 said:
Without question. That debate was over years ago. Everyone agrees the Bush Admin completely ignored the information on OBL. He was so focused on getting Sadam for trying to knock off his ol man, he didn't even see the real threat.
Click to expand...

If George ignored it for what? 8 months? Then Clinton ignored it for 8 years... I have no idea who you vote for, but if you're going to be critical then be fair about it.
 
#135
#135
UT IE 95 said:
Without question. That debate was over years ago. Everyone agrees the Bush Admin completely ignored the information on OBL. He was so focused on getting Sadam for trying to knock off his ol man, he didn't even see the real threat.
Click to expand...

You lose all credibility with that statement right there. Those who dislike Bush have many, many reasons for doing so but 9-11 is not one. That falls squarely on the last part of GH Bush and mostly on Billy Jeff Clinton. Neither of the 2 took the threat serious enough due to the fact that we had not been attacked by Islamic Fascists before. That is until the first wave of attacks on the TwinTowers (under Billy Jeff). But no one ever thought this could happen. And those who think so and want to blame it solely on Clinton are just as wrong.

There is a huge difference in those who wish us harm reports and those who have the capability of doing so. If the average American could hear the daily threat assesments it would cause total chaos and panic nation wide.




 
#136
#136
VolBeef88 said:
You lose all credibility with that statement right there. Those who dislike Bush have many, many reasons for doing so but 9-11 is not one. That falls squarely on the last part of GH Bush and mostly on Billy Jeff Clinton. Neither of the 2 took the threat serious enough due to the fact that we had not been attacked by Islamic Fascists before. That is until the first wave of attacks on the TwinTowers (under Billy Jeff). But no one ever thought this could happen. And those who think so and want to blame it solely on Clinton are just as wrong.

There is a huge difference in those who wish us harm reports and those who have the capability of doing so. If the average American could hear the daily threat assesments it would cause total chaos and panic nation wide.
Click to expand...

A family member works for a gov. agency that is involved with work done at our border with Mexico and he tells me there are threats and alarms raised weekly that would make the average citizen cringe.
 
#137
#137
VolBeef88 said:
You lose all credibility with that statement right there. Those who dislike Bush have many, many reasons for doing so but 9-11 is not one. That falls squarely on the last part of GH Bush and mostly on Billy Jeff Clinton. Neither of the 2 took the threat serious enough due to the fact that we had not been attacked by Islamic Fascists before. That is until the first wave of attacks on the TwinTowers (under Billy Jeff). But no one ever thought this could happen. And those who think so and want to blame it solely on Clinton are just as wrong.

There is a huge difference in those who wish us harm reports and those who have the capability of doing so. If the average American could hear the daily threat assesments it would cause total chaos and panic nation wide.
Click to expand...

GHWB and WJC both shoulder responsibility in 9/11 - years of not paying enough attention to a growing problem. But it was GWB that was provided specific information about an imminent attack that was flatly ignored. I believe it was in the May/June time frame if memory serves me.

Obviously hind sight is 20/20, but it unfortunately happened.
 
#138
#138
UT IE 95 said:
GHWB and WJC both shoulder responsibility in 9/11 - years of not paying enough attention to a growing problem. But it was GWB that was provided specific information about an imminent attack that was flatly ignored. I believe it was in the May/June time frame if memory serves me.

Obviously hind sight is 20/20, but it unfortunately happened.
Click to expand...

And we get those types of warnings on a regular basis. The question is did the intel think it was probable? If you say yes then there is no hope for you.

Just like Billy Jeff was offered OBL and didnt take him. Why? Because no one thought he was quite as bad as we now know.

Again to try and put 9-11 on W is bs. Plenty of other things but not that.
 
#139
#139
KB5252 said:
A family member works for a gov. agency that is involved with work done at our border with Mexico and he tells me there are threats and alarms raised weekly that would make the average citizen cringe.
Click to expand...

That can be said by a lot of law enforcement and military personnel throughout the ages. Not just Mexico but worldwide.
 
#140
#140
VolBeef88 said:
And we get those types of warnings on a regular basis. The question is did the intel think it was probable? If you say yes then there is no hope for you.

Just like Billy Jeff was offered OBL and didnt take him. Why? Because no one thought he was quite as bad as we now know.

Again to try and put 9-11 on W is bs. Plenty of other things but not that.
Click to expand...

GWB's legacy of failure will be based on his reaction to 9/11 rather than the events leading up to it.

Hopefully our next leader will develop and execute a better strategy for terrorism on a global level.
 
#141
#141
UT IE 95 said:
GWB's legacy of failure will be based on his reaction to 9/11 rather than the events leading up to it.

Hopefully our next leader will develop and execute a better strategy for terrorism on a global level.
Click to expand...

You are foolish if you really think this. The response to 9-11 will be his shining moment and his finest hour.

Iraq is still up in the air.

His spending and lack of direction during Katrina will be his biggest black eye in the history books.
 
#143
#143
If you disagree with some of Bush's policies, that's fine... but I think some people hate Bush simply for the sake of hating him. Kind of like a fad.
 
#144
#144
My personal belief that drew me to the Right when i was 12 or 13 and started reading the news often was the belief that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with the National Guard, Target Shooting, or Hunting.

It was about the great threat that the private citizen poses to a tyrannical govenrment when said citizens are well armed. The more i hear the leftists say how they arent against hunters, the less i trust them. Hitler and Stalin made disarming the populace a priority, once they had convinced the sheep that it was for their own good.

Does anyone not see that happening now? Gun laws to save us from the "Criminals"??? If you are going to commit a crime such as a home invasion, or a murder, are you going to go to the local gun store and buy a pistol? Ask our resident Policeman, OE, if you want to whack someone, you'd use a dang rifle.

I guess what i'm getting at, is that i fear Big Government. In 48 months of service to the Nation, i spent 27 of them overseas representing the United States in places we are less than liked. My familiy tree has grown enough Purple Hearts and Silver Stars to stand by my patriotism, the leftists that favor disarming the public in the name of Public Safety are plain naive.

Should they come for you, or your kids, or grandkids, and you are a "Guns for Hunting are Okay" guy, than you should be proud of what that got you ... While they are in a prison camp, My heirs will follow the orders of Captain John Parker, they will "Go home, get your gun, powder, and shot, and be on the green at the sound of the drum"
 
#145
#145
JTrainDavis said:
My personal belief that drew me to the Right when i was 12 or 13 and started reading the news often was the belief that the 2nd Amendment had nothing to do with the National Guard, Target Shooting, or Hunting.

It was about the great threat that the private citizen poses to a tyrannical govenrment when said citizens are well armed. The more i hear the leftists say how they arent against hunters, the less i trust them. Hitler and Stalin made disarming the populace a priority, once they had convinced the sheep that it was for their own good.

Does anyone not see that happening now? Gun laws to save us from the "Criminals"??? If you are going to commit a crime such as a home invasion, or a murder, are you going to go to the local gun store and buy a pistol? Ask our resident Policeman, OE, if you want to whack someone, you'd use a dang rifle.

I guess what i'm getting at, is that i fear Big Government. In 48 months of service to the Nation, i spent 27 of them overseas representing the United States in places we are less than liked. My familiy tree has grown enough Purple Hearts and Silver Stars to stand by my patriotism, the leftists that favor disarming the public in the name of Public Safety are plain naive.

Should they come for you, or your kids, or grandkids, and you are a "Guns for Hunting are Okay" guy, than you should be proud of what that got you ... While they are in a prison camp, My heirs will follow the orders of Captain John Parker, they will "Go home, get your gun, powder, and shot, and be on the green at the sound of the drum"
Click to expand...

We have the right to bare arms, and I own many guns under lock and key. But it saddens me when the news is filled with stories of little Johnny getting into pop's gun cabinet and killing 20 of his friends on a rampage. If we heard more stories of Johnny getting into the gun case and capping off an intruder raping his mom more people would be comfortable with less control on gun ownership.

I wish we could get gun control through strict accoutability for gun owners. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you are responsible. I mean they give away trigger locks at outdoors fests and boat shows, but people fail to use them.
 
#146
#146
VolBeef88 said:
You are foolish if you really think this. The response to 9-11 will be his shining moment and his finest hour.

Iraq is still up in the air.

His spending and lack of direction during Katrina will be his biggest black eye in the history books.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm foolish. I will always believe that OBL should have been brought to American justice - PRIORITY ONE. That will not happen under GWB.
 
#147
#147
UT IE 95 said:
I wish we could get gun control through strict accoutability for gun owners. If your gun is used to commit a crime, you are responsible. I mean they give away trigger locks at outdoors fests and boat shows, but people fail to use them.
Click to expand...


So if someone steals your car and then runs over someone and kills them, you are responsible?
 
#148
#148
Sjernigan88 said:
I have called myself a republican for most of my life, because of the belief that less govt is better govt, but they have gotten away from that. I think that if our forefathers could see how huge the federal govt has gotten they would encourage another revolution, after all it is similar to the reasoning of the first one. So now I guess if I must be "put with a party" I would call myself a libertarian.... or independent
Click to expand...

:clap:
 
#149
#149
allvol123 said:
So if someone steals your car and then runs over someone and kills them, you are responsible?
Click to expand...

If you leave the keys in the car and the door open, maybe. But a gun is a weapon, a car is transportation. I see your point, but it's a stretch on the intent.
 
#150
#150
UT IE 95 said:
If you leave the keys in the car and the door open, maybe. But a gun is a weapon, a car is transportation. I see your point, but it's a stretch on the intent.
Click to expand...

Your idea is a huge stretch. Me having a gun in my house and keeping it there in any manner I wish is my right. Once someone breaks into my house and takes possession of that gun, I cease to be responsible for anything it is used for. The idea of holding someone responsible because someone stole their gun and then used it in a crime is absurd.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top