What does it mean to be gay or lesbian?

#201
#201
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm just curious because it seems like one side has one understanding of what it means and the other side has another understanding.

Can we clarify what these terms mean so that we can move the discussion forward and have an honest dialogue?
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appreciate the opp --

In events where persons refer to "science" as "born that way" ,

Consider, the fact that Jesus said "you must be born again."
 
#202
#202
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm just curious because it seems like one side has one understanding of what it means and the other side has another understanding.

Can we clarify what these terms mean so that we can move the discussion forward and have an honest dialogue?
Click to expand...

I believe it's possible:

Consider, the likelihood that at some future point a Poster might request VN to clarify male and female adultery (as some might legitimately not understand its implications) --

Well, we could point to Leviticus, to help explain the meanings :

18:20And you shall not have sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife, to be defiled with her.
18:22You shall not sleep with a male as [k]one sleeps with a female; it is an abomination.

Question: in what ways has the meaning and understanding of adultery changed or remained the same (in context of your question) ?
 
#203
#203
82_VOL_83 said:
If you are saying it's a mental illness, then they choose to have a mental illness? It can't be both. Either it's a choice or an illness, which is it? Have you ever known someone with undiagnosed bipolar disorder? They do not believe they have a problem but being bipolar is not a choice.
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I have known someone with bipolar...a few to be honest. 1 refused treatment and made dangerous choices included drug (meth) use...she was also an addict as well. The other isy sister and she got treatment and is a HR Manager of a fortune 500. So choice definitely plays into whether mental illness effects us...my sister also has never had a successful relationship...she flirted with being a lesbian but ultimately the lifestyle wasn't for her.Best man at my first wedding is gay...but previously was married 2x. He recently told me that being in a homosexual relationship was easier on relate to...and gave him a sense of belonging. Which is human nature..he also has depression, anxiety and bipolar..but that sense of belonging is why you see the trend increasing in the recent generations. If homosexuality was biological there would've a trackable increased in % of the population..now the increase in current the generation that is LGBTQ is nearly mathematically improbable
 
#204
#204
So being gay is a combination of being mentally ill and refusing treatment?

Get this hoss a Nobel Peace Prize. He's cracked the code.
 
#205
#205
Hunerwadel said:
That is one of the most profoundly ignorant statements I have ever read on this forum. You are actually saying that homosexuality is a choice. Do you know any homosexuals or ever had a real conversations with any. If you had you would know it is not a choice. They are who and what they are just like you are who and what you are. Or perhaps you are confused because one day you just decided to be heterosexual.

.
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No, I am not saying that homosexuality is a choice. I am saying it does not exist. Homosexual attraction exists. Homosexual sexual acts exist. Homosexuality as some sort of intrinsic state of being does not.

I would argue that attraction is not a choice but who you have sex with certainly is. Plenty of heterosexual people have attraction but decide for whatever reason to not have sex.

That may be hard to accept for people with strong homosexual attractions but it is no less true. Our modern concept of homosexuality is an invention to make people who have urges feel better about themselves and not be condemned by society for acting upon them.

In ancient Greece, for example, your gender attraction did not matter, only which end of the dick you were on (giver or receiver). Granted, they also did not consider themselves pedophiles either, as we would today.

And I never decided to "be" hetrosexual. I certainly did decide who to have sex with and who not to. I still see women whom I am attracted to, yet because I am married, I choose not to have a sexual relationship with.

When you have 20% of gen z thinking they are "non-binary", clearly choice is at play.
 
#206
#206
DinkinFlicka said:
So being gay is a combination of being mentally ill and refusing treatment?

Get this hoss a Nobel Peace Prize. He's cracked the code.
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Right because a hidden gay gene that increases the likely hood that the species genetic line will die out is a more likely answer, even tho is goes in the face of evolution and the entire biological reason for procreation.
 
#207
#207
whodeycin85 said:
I have known someone with bipolar...a few to be honest. 1 refused treatment and made dangerous choices included drug (meth) use...she was also an addict as well. The other isy sister and she got treatment and is a HR Manager of a fortune 500. So choice definitely plays into whether mental illness effects us...my sister also has never had a successful relationship...she flirted with being a lesbian but ultimately the lifestyle wasn't for her.Best man at my first wedding is gay...but previously was married 2x. He recently told me that being in a homosexual relationship was easier on relate to...and gave him a sense of belonging. Which is human nature..he also has depression, anxiety and bipolar..but that sense of belonging is why you see the trend increasing in the recent generations. If homosexuality was biological there would've a trackable increased in % of the population..now the increase in current the generation that is LGBTQ is nearly mathematically improbable
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How did they determine they were bipolar in the first place? Did they just wake up and say I'm bipolar or did someone convince them to seek help?
 
#208
#208
Gandalf said:
No, I am not saying that homosexuality is a choice. I am saying it does not exist. Homosexual attraction exists. Homosexual sexual acts exist. Homosexuality as some sort of intrinsic state of being does not.

I would argue that attraction is not a choice but who you have sex with certainly is. Plenty of heterosexual people have attraction but decide for whatever reason to not have sex.

That may be hard to accept for people with strong homosexual attractions but it is no less true. Our modern concept of homosexuality is an invention to make people who have urges feel better about themselves and not be condemned by society for acting upon them.

In ancient Greece, for example, your gender attraction did not matter, only which end of the dick you were on (giver or receiver). Granted, they also did not consider themselves pedophiles either, as we would today.

And I never decided to "be" hetrosexual. I certainly did decide who to have sex with and who not to. I still see women whom I am attracted to, yet because I am married, I choose not to have a sexual relationship with.

When you have 20% of gen z thinking they are "non-binary", clearly choice is at play.
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The homosexual community is using the same argument the pedophiles are using...I born this way...no it's a choice to act on deviant and against biological nature...
 
#209
#209
82_VOL_83 said:
How did they determine they were bipolar in the first place? Did they just wake up and say I'm bipolar or did someone convince them to seek help?
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Some one say the signs and helped. And if you point is not everyone has help ..in this day and age when every school/job has a counselor and therapist available etc..there is more the enough people to help other see sign of mental illness...
 
#211
#211
Gandalf said:
No, I am not saying that homosexuality is a choice. I am saying it does not exist. Homosexual attraction exists. Homosexual sexual acts exist. Homosexuality as some sort of intrinsic state of being does not.

I would argue that attraction is not a choice but who you have sex with certainly is. Plenty of heterosexual people have attraction but decide for whatever reason to not have sex.

That may be hard to accept for people with strong homosexual attractions but it is no less true. Our modern concept of homosexuality is an invention to make people who have urges feel better about themselves and not be condemned by society for acting upon them.

In ancient Greece, for example, your gender attraction did not matter, only which end of the dick you were on (giver or receiver). Granted, they also did not consider themselves pedophiles either, as we would today.

And I never decided to "be" hetrosexual. I certainly did decide who to have sex with and who not to. I still see women whom I am attracted to, yet because I am married, I choose not to have a sexual relationship with.

When you have 20% of gen z thinking they are "non-binary", clearly choice is at play.
Click to expand...

You said in your previous post that there is "no such thing as a homosexual state of being". Maybe you could clarify that. If two people come together as one in a homosexual relationship I would argue that they exist in a homosexual state of being. If you are hinting at some philosophic argument over what existence is I wouldn't be interested in going there. I can say with a high degree of certainty that homosexuals and homosexuality exists. I agree that while a person can make a choice to have sex with either a male or female they cannot choose whether they are homo or heterosexual. Their state of being in that respect is out of their hands.
 
#212
#212
Gandalf said:
No, I am not saying that homosexuality is a choice. I am saying it does not exist. Homosexual attraction exists. Homosexual sexual acts exist. Homosexuality as some sort of intrinsic state of being does not.

I would argue that attraction is not a choice but who you have sex with certainly is. Plenty of heterosexual people have attraction but decide for whatever reason to not have sex.

That may be hard to accept for people with strong homosexual attractions but it is no less true. Our modern concept of homosexuality is an invention to make people who have urges feel better about themselves and not be condemned by society for acting upon them.

In ancient Greece, for example, your gender attraction did not matter, only which end of the dick you were on (giver or receiver). Granted, they also did not consider themselves pedophiles either, as we would today.

And I never decided to "be" hetrosexual. I certainly did decide who to have sex with and who not to. I still see women whom I am attracted to, yet because I am married, I choose not to have a sexual relationship with.

When you have 20% of gen z thinking they are "non-binary", clearly choice is at play.
Click to expand...
Interesting take. This would also mean heterosexuality does not exist as a state. They're both opposite ends of the same scale after all.

In terms of Gen Z, there's a massive difference in saying you're something and actually being that something. I question the authenticity of many of these claims.
 
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#214
#214
gcbvol said:
Interesting take. This would also mean heterosexuality does not exist as a state. They're both opposite ends of the same scale after all.

In terms of Gen Z, there's a massive difference in saying you're something and actually being that something. I question the authenticity of many of these claims.
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I made reference to "devoutly" gay in an earlier post. You're communicating my thoughts with questioning the authenticity of Gen Z claiming to be gay. Some of the Gen Z are coming more from a place of choice than innate same sex attraction.
 
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#215
#215
Anyone making the "hetero sex is biologically correct" argument must have never used a rubber, been with someone on birth control, or hell... ever f*cked for fun.

We weren't even monogamous creatures in the first place. Your marriage is biologically inconsistent.
 
#216
#216
McDad said:
I made reference to "devoutly" gay in an earlier post. You're communicating my thoughts with questioning the authenticity of Gen Z claiming to be gay. Some of the Gen Z are coming more from a place of choice than innate same sex attraction.
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Yep, and if I'm not mistaken the majority of Gen Z claiming this are women. And, again, it's much easier to claim you have same-sex attraction than to act on it. I can say I'm attracted to women all I want but it doesn't mean I can perform with one.
 
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#217
#217
whodeycin85 said:
The homosexual community is using the same argument the pedophiles are using...I born this way...no it's a choice to act on deviant and against biological nature...
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It only takes an ounce of logic to realize that party B using a similar argument does not disqualify party A's argument. Might as well say that pedos also eat ice cream.
 
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#221
#221
n_huffhines said:
It only takes an ounce of logic to realize that party B using a similar argument does not disqualify party A's argument. Might as well say that pedos also eat ice cream.
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I'm just saying you can't support party A and not party B if you believe that neither have a choice..
 
#223
#223
DinkinFlicka said:
Anyone making the "hetero sex is biologically correct" argument must have never used a rubber, been with someone on birth control, or hell... ever f*cked for fun.

We weren't even monogamous creatures in the first place. Your marriage is biologically inconsistent.
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Your last sentence about marriage is only correct thing you have said. Marriage isn't hard wired I. Out DNA, that why men tend to have multiple partners. It's not uncommon in African tribe for men to impregnate as may women as possible to carry on their genetic line. Also women are hard wired to look for the best genetic line. Tall, strong, etc...if you asked women most women prefer physical height and build of only around 10% of men...Marriage is a religious ideology, not biological.
 
#224
#224
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm just curious because it seems like one side has one understanding of what it means and the other side has another understanding.

Can we clarify what these terms mean so that we can move the discussion forward and have an honest dialogue?
Click to expand...

Here is a book-readying you might find useful --

 
#225
#225
whodeycin85 said:
The homosexual community is using the same argument the pedophiles are using...I born this way...no it's a choice to act on deviant and against biological nature...
Click to expand...

There is a significant difference, however, in that homosexual sex is practiced between two consenting adults. Pedophiles use the same argument perhaps, yes, that they are born that way and can't help their attraction, but we do not recognize the other party as legally (and probably morally) capable of consent.

Thus also, why this "identity" stuff is a mess. Why cant a 13yo identify as an 18yo? Reality puts the lie to the whole sham. But again, it is a choice.
 
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