What if Pearl were 100% out of the picture?

#76
#76
Interesting. Fire a coach that's improved in all 3 years, and is coming off a sweet 16. Gotta love Vol fans.

Better hope Hart is paying 3+ million or good luck finding any coach willing to come here.
 
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#77
#77
bleedingTNorange said:
Interesting. Fire a coach that's improved in all 3 years, and is coming off a sweet 16. Gotta love Vol fans.

Better hope Hart is paying 3+ million or good luck finding any coach willing to come here.
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Two things:

1- I didn't say Hart was going to fire him. I would. I'm running a business. I'm asking myself a question do we have an advantage over our opponents with Zo on our bench. The answer is a resounding no. I look at the direction of the program. We've improved all 3 years? What happens when this team is all Zo's and Pearl's recruits are gone?

2- We are not going to the Sweet 16
 
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#78
#78
NYC Vol said:
Yes, I still am for firing him. I don't think he's a good coach. I don't think he coaches on the floor well. I think his recruiting has been 2nd rate overall. I think he's made bad personnel decisions (firing Fancher and hiring his buddy Marco Harris for Dir Basketball Ops) and I think leaving for China when he started was a terrible move.

As for the replacements, I haven't really looked into them too hard but I do like what I see of Tyndall. I think there are some very solid candidates out there.

I don't think you keep a guy if you don't think he's the long term solution. I've heard people say "you can't afford to fire him" because of the AD's finances. I think the opposite is true. We can't afford to pay him $1.7m next year and then a buyout of $3m AND face a steeper climb back to respectability.
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If we make the NCAAT and win a game, or even make the Sweet 16, and we fire him, who do you honestly think would even consider coming here?
 
#79
#79
NYC Vol said:
Two things:

1- I didn't say Hart was going to fire him. I would. I'm running a business. I'm asking myself a question do we have an advantage over our opponents with Zo on our bench. The answer is a resounding no. I look at the direction of the program. We've improved all 3 years? What happens when this team is all Zo's and Pearl's recruits are gone?

2- We are not going to the Sweet 16
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1. So you're claiming you're smarter than Hart, if Hart was to keep him?

2. The post was hypothetical, and that was the situation I presented.
 
#80
#80
VolsSportsFan said:
If we make the NCAAT and win a game, or even make the Sweet 16, and we fire him, who do you honestly think would even consider coming here?
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As I've said many, many times. There are plenty of coaches that will come here. Whether you woo them with $$ or you go find an up and comer, there are plenty that will see the facilities, fanbase and terrible SEC and take the job.

It's time that we treat this program with expectations and what Zo has done here is not enough. I know this...who we get won't be worse than Zo. At worst case he'll be the same. Our program is about to go Auburn next year. I saw a post on VQ how they think we can be okay next year IF, IF, IF, IF. Our roster will be 10th best in the league....if that.
 
#81
#81
bleedingTNorange said:
1. So you're claiming you're smarter than Hart, if Hart was to keep him?

2. The post was hypothetical, and that was the situation I presented.
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No, I'm not saying I'm smarter than Hart. I'm also not saying Hart is smarter than me. He has a lot more UT stuff to worry about than I do. I'm strictly making this decision based on his coaching ability and nothing else ($, boosters, media, etc).

We're not going to the Sweet 16. That hypothetical is as real as Zo cursing out the refs on Friday and getting a double technical.
 
#82
#82
NYC Vol said:
No, I'm not saying I'm smarter than Hart. I'm also not saying Hart is smarter than me. He has a lot more UT stuff to worry about than I do. I'm strictly making this decision based on his coaching ability and nothing else ($, boosters, media, etc).

We're not going to the Sweet 16. That hypothetical is as real as Zo cursing out the refs on Friday and getting a double technical.
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Got the upcoming powerball numbers?
 
#83
#83
NYC Vol said:
As I've said many, many times. There are plenty of coaches that will come here. Whether you woo them with $$ or you go find an up and comer, there are plenty that will see the facilities, fanbase and terrible SEC and take the job.

It's time that we treat this program with expectations and what Zo has done here is not enough. I know this...who we get won't be worse than Zo. At worst case he'll be the same. Our program is about to go Auburn next year. I saw a post on VQ how they think we can be okay next year IF, IF, IF, IF. Our roster will be 10th best in the league....if that.
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10th best? What's that based on lol
 
#85
#85
NYC Vol said:
As I've said many, many times. There are plenty of coaches that will come here. Whether you woo them with $$ or you go find an up and comer, there are plenty that will see the facilities, fanbase and terrible SEC and take the job.

It's time that we treat this program with expectations and what Zo has done here is not enough. I know this...who we get won't be worse than Zo. At worst case he'll be the same. Our program is about to go Auburn next year. I saw a post on VQ how they think we can be okay next year IF, IF, IF, IF. Our roster will be 10th best in the league....if that.
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Ok if you find an "up and comer", how is that going to please the fanbase? Why would they embrace another guy who's not proven on the big stage? Of all these "many" guys we can get, why have so many names been met with skepticism here?

And why would you go through the trouble of going through a buyout to get someone who would be the same? That's silly.
 
#86
#86
NYC Vol said:
Recruiting. You know, the lifeblood of a program.

I don't get what you're arguing here. You've said time and time again over the last month that Zo is not the long term answer. Or did I imagine that?
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So according to you, next years squad would rank 10th in the SEC based on talent?

Curious, how many other SEC teams have a 5* on next years roster? We can start there.
 
#89
#89
VolsSportsFan said:
Ok if you find an "up and comer", how is that going to please the fanbase? Why would they embrace another guy who's not proven on the big stage? Of all these "many" guys we can get, why have so many names been met with skepticism here?

And why would you go through the trouble of going through a buyout to get someone who would be the same? That's silly.
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The same? I would imagine you would probably get a coach that can actually, you know, coach. Just because a guy has a mid major background doesn't make him the same. As I said, there are plenty of coaches out there who can coach, who are innovative, who can recruit, etc.

And as far as a guy the fans can get behind do you remember who most of the fanbase wanted back in '05? Some wanted Bobby Knight. Some wanted other people. You know who they didn't want? Bruce Pearl. When it comes to hiring a coach, the press conference is well overrated. Get a guy who can actually coach.

The fans will give any new coach some leeway. Zo got plenty of support his first couple years.
 
#90
#90
bleedingTNorange said:
Sure...once you attempt to answer my question first.
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So because we return a 5ppg scorer we have more talent than everyone?

Interesting how people say that Zo's first team was terrible and he overachieved when he had 6 4* guys. How many teams in the league had that many his first year? And he overachieved? How's that argument looking for you now? You gonna pick and choose where recruiting rankings matter?

By the way, the answer to your question is UK, Fla and maybe LSU depending if their 5* stays or not. Are you suggesting we have the 3rd or 4th best talent next year? You expect us to finish in the top 4 and if we don't that's bad coaching?

You going to answer my question now? How many teams in our conference have at least 1 4*? How many have 2? 3?
 
#91
#91
NYC Vol said:
The same? I would imagine you would probably get a coach that can actually, you know, coach. Just because a guy has a mid major background doesn't make him the same. As I said, there are plenty of coaches out there who can coach, who are innovative, who can recruit, etc.

And as far as a guy the fans can get behind do you remember who most of the fanbase wanted back in '05? Some wanted Bobby Knight. Some wanted other people. You know who they didn't want? Bruce Pearl. When it comes to hiring a coach, the press conference is well overrated. Get a guy who can actually coach.

The fans will give any new coach some leeway. Zo got plenty of support his first couple years.
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Yes, but this is a much different time. We sucked in 2005 before Pearl came here.

I disagree the press conference is overrated, at least with this fanbase. Look at all the comments from people who want Pearl. Plenty of have said it's not just because he won, it's because he was a showman; because he entertains them. Several posters have stated they only want Pearl because he's the "only sure thing". You say fans will support the new coach, yes, but the next guy will even have less rope before the "Pearl" calls happen again.
 
#92
#92
VolsSportsFan said:
Yes, but this is a much different time. We sucked in 2005 before Pearl came here.

I disagree the press conference is overrated, at least with this fanbase. Look at all the comments from people who want Pearl. Plenty of have said it's not just because he won, it's because he was a showman; because he entertains them. Several posters have stated they only want Pearl because he's the "only sure thing". You say fans will support the new coach, yes, but the next guy will even have less rope before the "Pearl" calls happen again.
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So what do we do? Just accept mediocrity because we're afraid we might make a bad hire? Just let Zo keep going because some fans are only enamored with Pearl?

Take hiring a coach out of this. Has Zo shown he's going to succeed long term? Where do YOU think this program is heading under his leadership? If you think things are looking up, that's fine. Difference of opinion. But if the reason he keeps his job is because we're afraid that nobody will want this job or we'll make a bad hire that's not acceptable to me.
 
#93
#93
NYC Vol said:
So because we return a 5ppg scorer we have more talent than everyone?

Interesting how people say that Zo's first team was terrible and he overachieved when he had 6 4* guys. How many teams in the league had that many his first year? And he overachieved? How's that argument looking for you now? You gonna pick and choose where recruiting rankings matter?

By the way, the answer to your question is UK, Fla and maybe LSU depending if their 5* stays or not. Are you suggesting we have the 3rd or 4th best talent next year? You expect us to finish in the top 4 and if we don't that's bad coaching?

You going to answer my question now? How many teams in our conference have at least 1 4*? How many have 2? 3?
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I'm playing your game. You said your statement of 10th or worse roster next year was based on recruiting. I think that number is way off, in terms of top 8 because that's generally what we play, I would say our talent level is definitely top half of the league.

By my count Tennessee will have 9 top 150 players according to 247....you have numbers for the rest of the conference?
 
#95
#95
bleedingTNorange said:
There was a fire Zo thread approximately 10 games into his first year.

Good call.
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Sometimes that happens when you lose to a 1-8 Austin Peay team on your home court. Turns out that was a precursor of things to come. And yet nobody (not those without mental impairment) said he should be fired prior to this season.

Once again, I'll ask you this question:

I don't get what you're arguing here. You've said time and time again over the last month that Zo is not the long term answer. Or did I imagine that?
 
#96
#96
NYC Vol said:
Sometimes that happens when you lose to a 1-8 Austin Peay team on your home court. Turns out that was a precursor of things to come. And yet nobody (not those without mental impairment) said he should be fired prior to this season.
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Is this not hypocritical?

There were plenty calling for him to be fired after year 1, during year 2, and even more after year 2 was over. If you don't think there wasn't a contingent calling for his head at the end of last year you're in complete denial.

Why'd you avoid my other post?
 
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#97
#97
NYC Vol said:
So what do we do? Just accept mediocrity because we're afraid we might make a bad hire? Just let Zo keep going because some fans are only enamored with Pearl?

Take hiring a coach out of this. Has Zo shown he's going to succeed long term? Where do YOU think this program is heading under his leadership? If you think things are looking up, that's fine. Difference of opinion. But if the reason he keeps his job is because we're afraid that nobody will want this job or we'll make a bad hire that's not acceptable to me.
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I'm saying you have to look at all the factors. Remember, this is all based on a hypothetical that Martin makes it to at least 32.

If he makes the round of 32 at least (and even moreso a Sweet 16) and you fire him, at a place like UT, I think it will actually turn off a ton of candidates and we'll get bad press from this.This ain't UK, Kansas, Duke, etc. Now you say if we pay enough, well now you have to pay a buyout, and you can't tell me that doesn't factor in to how much we're willing to shell out.

Now onto the fan side, you say "some fans" are still hung up over Pearl, well is it a majority as many on here claim or is it just a vocal minority? I honestly can't tell you. If it's even half, then immediately 50% of the fanbase is going to be pissed if we hire an up and comer and probably won't give 2 craps if he can coach or not. They'll want wins ASAP, regardless of the circumstances.

I've long said Martin has to make the NCAAT, and for me he has to win at least one. I have a really hard time saying a guy at a place like UT is going to be sent packing after that. I feel like we asked him to improve, he did, and we still said "Sorry broseph, hit the road". Long term no he probably isn't the answer, but as I said, if he makes the round of 32/Sweet 16 and you show him the door, you better have something amazing lined up, whether it's Pearl or a proven winner.
 
#98
#98
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm playing your game. You said your statement of 10th or worse roster next year was based on recruiting. I think that number is way off, in terms of top 8 because that's generally what we play, I would say our talent level is definitely top half of the league.

By my count Tennessee will have 9 top 150 players according to 247....you have numbers for the rest of the conference?
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Please list them without Stokes. According to Rivals we have:

Hubbs
Josh Richardson
Austin
Cofer
Thompson

And again, I'll ask you this question again (I'm sensing a theme that you don't answer questions that don't fit your agenda). Since we have more 5* than all but 2 or 3 teams, should we expect that we will be top 4 in the conference next year?
 
#99
#99
It's really super simple OP. This team IS talented and IS experienced. Nobody had doubts about that before the season. It's just a fact.

Many, including myself, believed that if the Vols were somehow not able to make the dance this season, then this staff is probably not capable of being successful here. It's was a simple litmus test.

This season, we have underachieved. Plain and simple. We have lost several games that this team had no business losing. Yes, one or two hiccups are to be expected, but were talking about a lot more than that.

Now, I'm not committing final judgment on this staff until the season is over. But, the fact that this group is on the bubble is NOT acceptable. Conversely, it appears that this team may be playing it's best & most consistent ball of the season right at the perfect time.

Questions to be answered ...
Will they choke in the SECT and end up NIT bound again?
Will they squeak by just enough to get an NCAA bid?
Will they continue this peaking process and make a deep NCAA run?

I'm hoping for the latter one, but the fact that the first one is even on this list is simply below expectations. This team should be trying to win the SECT and jockeying for high seeding right now. Plain and simple.
 
#100
#100
bleedingTNorange said:
Is this not hypocritical?

There were plenty calling for him to be fired after year 1, during year 2, and even more after year 2 was over. If you don't think there wasn't a contingent calling for his head at the end of last year you're in complete denial.

Why'd you avoid my other post?
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Chill dude. I can only answer so many of your silly posts at a time. At least I answer your questions. You avoid mine like the plague.

Hypocritical? Because some irrational fans change their mind after every game? Check out the UK board after the Fla game. Some fans there want Cal fired. Are we using the most irrational of fans as a barometer these days? Some fans wanted Pearl fired after some games as well. I don't think many of us took the asinine threads seriously.
 
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