What is a successful season

#151
#151
Since before the season started my expectations were to not be on the bubble and be playing for seeding at the end of the season. I don't put expectations on the tournament other than playing up to potential.
 
#152
#152
I'd say top three in the SEC, over 20 wins, and sweet 16 in the tourney. That is a successful season.
 
#153
#153
volbeast33 said:
I think we remember a lot of pearl's players glowingly bc pearl made them winners....no one remember jordan as highly bc Zo didn't do the same for him.
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It's not about remembering them fondly or not. You are dancing around the question. Did Pearl inherit a way better team? Yes. Anybody saying no is lying.

Here are the previous years numbers for the players they got.

Pearl
Pg 12 pts 5 ast
SG 13.5 pts 1.5 ast 93/200 .465 on 3 pointers
SF 2 pts 0.4 ast
PF 7.5 pts 6.2 reb 20blks
C 5 pts 3 rb 32 blks

Martin
PG 3 pts 2.2 ast
SG 1.8 pts 0 ast 1/9 .111 3 pointers
SF 8.8 pts 2.3 ast
PF 2.6 pts 2.8 reb 0blks
C HS

Numbers don't lie.
 
#154
#154
k-town_king said:
It's not about remembering them fondly or not. You are dancing around the question. Did Pearl inherit a way better team? Yes. Anybody saying no is lying.

Here are the previous years numbers for the players they got.

Pearl
Pg 12 pts 5 ast
SG 13.5 pts 1.5 ast 93/200 .465 on 3 pointers
SF 2 pts 0.4 ast
PF 7.5 pts 6.2 reb 20blks
C 5 pts 3 rb 32 blks

Martin
PG 3 pts 2.2 ast
SG 1.8 pts 0 ast 1/9 .111 3 pointers
SF 8.8 pts 2.3 ast
PF 2.6 pts 2.8 reb 0blks
C HS

Numbers don't lie.
Click to expand...

CCM is in year 3 now, so what's his excuse?
Numbers don't lie huh? Do you really want to play the numbers game when talking about Bruce and Cuonzo?
 
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#155
#155
k-town_king said:
It's not about remembering them fondly or not. You are dancing around the question. Did Pearl inherit a way better team? Yes. Anybody saying no is lying.

Here are the previous years numbers for the players they got.

Pearl
Pg 12 pts 5 ast
SG 13.5 pts 1.5 ast 93/200 .465 on 3 pointers
SF 2 pts 0.4 ast
PF 7.5 pts 6.2 reb 20blks
C 5 pts 3 rb 32 blks

Martin
PG 3 pts 2.2 ast
SG 1.8 pts 0 ast 1/9 .111 3 pointers
SF 8.8 pts 2.3 ast
PF 2.6 pts 2.8 reb 0blks
C HS

Numbers don't lie.
Click to expand...

U can't compare stats.....pearls group was mainly starters on a 14-16 basketball team......Zo's players were backups on a tournament team.......if Zo's players started their stats would be much more comparable.
 
#156
#156
volbeast33 said:
U can't compare stats.....pearls group was mainly starters on a 14-16 basketball team......Zo's players were backups on a tournament team.......if Zo's players started their stats would be much more comparable.
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The problem with this explanation is three years in, BP was 31-5 and a sweet sixteen. We're already past that mark. Honestly, three years in, you know. One's eyes are not lying to you, but your heart might.
 
#158
#158
The goal should be NCAA tourney every year. We have the biggest house in the SEC not because we strive for NIT bids. Sweet 16 should have been the goal this year.
 
#160
#160
volbeast33 said:
U can't compare stats.....pearls group was mainly starters on a 14-16 basketball team......Zo's players were backups on a tournament team.......if Zo's players started their stats would be much more comparable.
Click to expand...


You still didn't answer the question straight up.


So you would rather inherit a team of bench players from a NCAA team that can't shoot , score , or block shots? Versus a whole team of starters from a .500 team? Including a freshman All American who led the league in threes and a NBA point guard? Also two athletic shot blockers. One didn't even start and still averaged more in every category than any body Martin got by a long shot.

Buzz couldn't coach but he could recruit. Andre Patterson was a top 20 recruit and MCD finalist. Wingate was a top 60 4 star. CJ Watson 4 star NBA pg. CLo was a top 150 player and Freshman All American who averaged 13.5 and could of put up 20 a game if not for McFadgon gunning.

So Pearl got four 4stars that started or played and averaged more than anybody Martin inherited. The fifth was CLo who was a top 150 recruit who was already a great player before Pearl. Martin got four 4stars that had did nothing.

Numbers don't lie like I said. Bruce inherited players rated just as high or higher and averaged more of everything.
 
#161
#161
k-town_king said:
You still didn't answer the question straight up.


So you would rather inherit a team of bench players from a NCAA team that can't shoot , score , or block shots? Versus a whole team of starters from a .500 team? Including a freshman All American who led the league in threes and a NBA point guard? Also two athletic shot blockers. One didn't even start and still averaged more in every category than any body Martin got by a long shot.

Buzz couldn't coach but he could recruit. Andre Patterson was a top 20 recruit and MCD finalist. Wingate was a top 60 4 star. CJ Watson 4 star NBA pg. CLo was a top 150 player and Freshman All American who averaged 13.5 and could of put up 20 a game if not for McFadgon gunning.

So Pearl got four 4stars that started or played and averaged more than anybody Martin inherited. The fifth was CLo who was a top 150 recruit who was already a great player before Pearl. Martin got four 4stars that had did nothing.

Numbers don't lie like I said. Bruce inherited players rated just as high or higher and averaged more of everything.
Click to expand...

Actually numbers can be made to support a lie, it's all in how they are used and how the questions are slanted. It is as Disraeli said: " There are three types of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics."
 
#162
#162
k-town_king said:
You still didn't answer the question straight up.


So you would rather inherit a team of bench players from a NCAA team that can't shoot , score , or block shots? Versus a whole team of starters from a .500 team? Including a freshman All American who led the league in threes and a NBA point guard? Also two athletic shot blockers. One didn't even start and still averaged more in every category than any body Martin got by a long shot.

Buzz couldn't coach but he could recruit. Andre Patterson was a top 20 recruit and MCD finalist. Wingate was a top 60 4 star. CJ Watson 4 star NBA pg. CLo was a top 150 player and Freshman All American who averaged 13.5 and could of put up 20 a game if not for McFadgon gunning.

So Pearl got four 4stars that started or played and averaged more than anybody Martin inherited. The fifth was CLo who was a top 150 recruit who was already a great player before Pearl. Martin got four 4stars that had did nothing.

Numbers don't lie like I said. Bruce inherited players rated just as high or higher and averaged more of everything.
Click to expand...

Here are the players that contributed on both teams:

CJ Watson 3*
Chris Lofton 3* 146 ranked
Jajuan Smith 2*
A Patterson couldnt find his rivals page but highly rated but did not come close to living up to it
M Wingate 4* 60 ranked\
D Bradshaw 3* 133 ranked
S Asumnu 3*
J Howell 3* 143 ranked
R Childress 2*

T Golden 4* 63 ranked
J Mcrae 4* 47 ranked
C Tatum 4* 104 ranked
J Maymon 4* 47 ranked
J Stokes 5* top 20 player
K Hall 4* 74 ranked
R Woolridge 4* no where close to living up to ranking
S Mcbee 2*
J Richardson 3* 124 ranked

Zo had much higher rated team his first year, of course that is not actula production on the courts. The reason why the players had minimal stats besides being young they played behind a veteran NCAA tourney team.

Going into Pearl's first yr, I thought that team was going to suck but was shocked when we won. I dont think the differences between the two teams is that big except for the man that was coaching them.

You mentioned CJ being an NBA player but he wasnt drafted, he worked his butt off to eventually make an NBA roster.
 
#169
#169
volbeast33 said:
U can't compare stats.....pearls group was mainly starters on a 14-16 basketball team......Zo's players were backups on a tournament team.......if Zo's players started their stats would be much more comparable.
Click to expand...

I think you explained yourself why Pearl's first team was probably better. It's called experience, and the numbers validate that. Pearl's first team had experience and just needed good coaching and motivation. Martin's had no experience whatsoever- did not inherit a starter (unless you call Tatum one). That's kind of the point.
 
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#170
#170
knowthevols said:
Actually numbers can be made to support a lie, it's all in how they are used and how the questions are slanted. It is as Disraeli said: " There are three types of lies, lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Click to expand...

Damn, I haven't seen that before...from you. Keep rolling with the same thing.
 
#172
#172
volbeast33 said:
Here are the players that contributed on both teams:

CJ Watson 3*
Chris Lofton 3* 146 ranked
Jajuan Smith 2*
A Patterson couldnt find his rivals page but highly rated but did not come close to living up to it
M Wingate 4* 60 ranked\
D Bradshaw 3* 133 ranked
S Asumnu 3*
J Howell 3* 143 ranked
R Childress 2*

T Golden 4* 63 ranked
J Mcrae 4* 47 ranked
C Tatum 4* 104 ranked
J Maymon 4* 47 ranked
J Stokes 5* top 20 player
K Hall 4* 74 ranked
R Woolridge 4* no where close to living up to ranking
S Mcbee 2*
J Richardson 3* 124 ranked

Zo had much higher rated team his first year, of course that is not actula production on the courts. The reason why the players had minimal stats besides being young they played behind a veteran NCAA tourney team.

Going into Pearl's first yr, I thought that team was going to suck but was shocked when we won. I dont think the differences between the two teams is that big except for the man that was coaching them.

You mentioned CJ being an NBA player but he wasnt drafted, he worked his butt off to eventually make an NBA roster.
Click to expand...

Pearl inherited a much more experienced team with a more talented backcourt. A key to college basketball is guard play, and if you play a hectic style, then you can get away with a smaller lineup. I didn't expect Pearl to win as much that first year either, and it was a great coaching job. However, Martin's first year was a dumpster fire, and he was relying on guys who had never played. I believe Kenny Hall had the most experience, and he was averaging 13 minutes/game or less. I will take an experienced PG, an All-American SG, and some frontcourt role players (still two 4 stars) over the lack of experience that Martin inherited anyday. I have been on record as not being a fan of Trae Golden anyway, and Watson can do circles around him as a PG. Stokes can't really be brought into this much because he started playing mid-season. In fact, the team got much better after he started playing and made that run.

All that said, it doesn't really change anything in year 3. Martin should be coaching better, and I expected more with this roster. We will see where it goes from here.
 
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#175
#175
volbeast33 said:
Here are the players that contributed on both teams:

CJ Watson 3*
Chris Lofton 3* 146 ranked
Jajuan Smith 2*
A Patterson couldnt find his rivals page but highly rated but did not come close to living up to it
M Wingate 4* 60 ranked\
D Bradshaw 3* 133 ranked
S Asumnu 3*
J Howell 3* 143 ranked
R Childress 2*

T Golden 4* 63 ranked
J Mcrae 4* 47 ranked
C Tatum 4* 104 ranked
J Maymon 4* 47 ranked
J Stokes 5* top 20 player
K Hall 4* 74 ranked
R Woolridge 4* no where close to living up to ranking
S Mcbee 2*
J Richardson 3* 124 ranked

Zo had much higher rated team his first year, of course that is not actula production on the courts. The reason why the players had minimal stats besides being young they played behind a veteran NCAA tourney team.

Going into Pearl's first yr, I thought that team was going to suck but was shocked when we won. I dont think the differences between the two teams is that big except for the man that was coaching them.

You mentioned CJ being an NBA player but he wasnt drafted, he worked his butt off to eventually make an NBA roster.
Click to expand...

Cj Watson 4 star
Scout.com: C.J. Watson Profile

Andre Patterson
High School
Named the co-LA City Player of the Year as a senior ... A McDonald's All-America finalist ... Averaged 33.0 points and 13.0 rebounds in leading Washington Prep to the quarterfinals of the Los Angeles City Tournament ... Scored 33 points in the quarterfinals against Fairfax ... Named co-Player of the Year for the Central City Area by the Los Angeles Times ... Cal-Hi Sports CIF Division I selection ... Named co-MVP of the Long Beach Roundball Extravaganza ... Ranked ninth among all players at the 2000 Nike Summer Camp ... Rated as the 16th-best prep player in Hoop Scoop's 2000-01 preseason poll ...


I'd take 5 experienced highly rated starters over 4 inexperienced highly rated starters. How did Zo have a much higher rated team? Also 5 returning starters to one.
 
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