What must be done to Unite the Country

#553
#553
Serene said:
I completely agree that things are a lot more nuanced than "Option 1" and "Option 2". I'm saying that humans' brains tend to undercomplicate things and assign an "us" and a "them", no matter how silly that is. I'm not arguing that things are black and white, I'm arguing that too many people treat things as black and white. It's unfortunate, but it's instinct.
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My response to you was concerning the binary belief of another poster. It's that narrow view that we must rid from our society in order for there to be real unity
 
#554
#554
Serene said:
I appreciate the optimism and agree with most of the actual policy ideas, but I'm afraid it's not really enough. The problem is tribalism, and it's a problem hardwired into all of our brains. We just have this innate instinct to want to be a part of an "us" and to dislike a "them". That's why external threats are usually such good uniting events--it doesn't defeat the tribalism, it just changes who the "us" and "them" are. Since the events at the Capitol are not really an external threat and doesn't change the "us" versus "them" calculus for a lot of people, I don't think it will be as helpful in uniting the country as, say, Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Without a way to "disable" or guard against tribalism, I just don't see any solution that will work long term. It's a really tough problem to tackle. Education helps, but we're just inexorably drawn to it. Hell, we're sitting on a sports forum that's basically dedicated to tribalism.
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I would argue that education doesnt help.

It's another way to divide us vs them. You see it clearly in the divides we already had. Dumb rednecks vs overeducated hippies.

Even the more educated hold themselves apart from the masses because of their education.

I do agree with the reduction or shift of the "us" and "them" paradigms. Personally I believe the most healthy "us" vs "them" is governed vs those that govern. That maintains balance and keeps those in power honest. "We" have given up all our power to "them" because they have us playing sides.
 
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#556
#556
Serene said:
The point is that there's always going to be people who think that the current leader of any government (federal, state, or local) are "imbeciles". You're not solving a problem of division by kicking the problem down from the federal to the state level. I'm not arguing that there are not advantages of having more localized governmental decisions (with federal protections of rights), but to act like decreasing the size of the federal government is some magic cure-all for division is misguided.
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I agree. Decentralizing doesnt fix anything. But it allows things to be fixed in a more efficient manner.

Once you localize these issues it allows people to vote with their feet. With the one size fits all federal government you cant escape, and still be American.
 
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#557
#557
Serene said:
I completely agree that things are a lot more nuanced than "Option 1" and "Option 2". I'm saying that humans' brains tend to undercomplicate things and assign an "us" and a "them", no matter how silly that is. I'm not arguing that things are black and white, I'm arguing that too many people treat things as black and white. It's unfortunate, but it's instinct.
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I think people need to learn to be ok with other people having different interpretations. Which, maybe ironically, defeats the unity solution.
 
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#558
#558
Serene said:
The point is that there's always going to be people who think that the current leader of any government (federal, state, or local) are "imbeciles". You're not solving a problem of division by kicking the problem down from the federal to the state level. I'm not arguing that there are not advantages of having more localized governmental decisions (with federal protections of rights), but to act like decreasing the size of the federal government is some magic cure-all for division is misguided.
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It's not a cure-all because there is no such thing, and this brings up one of the worst characteristics of federal government and the laws/regulations it imposes on us. They try to make everyone of them a cure-all, all inclusive policy and that cannot work in a country as big and diverse as ours. What works in Illinois and 20 other states might not work or be a solution in New Mexico it actually may cause more problems there. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum when there is truly a problem that only the fed .gov can solve and they can't come to a "cure-all" they do nothing. Kick the can down the road and hope it doesn't hurt them getting reelected.

It is harder for a state representative, county commissioner or city alderman to ignore their constituents because they are much easier to vote out than a senator or house member. It also would reduce the influence unelected and unaccountable lobbyists have, right now they have a target audience of 535 to spend money on to gain influence by sending the majority of the governance back to the states it is an audience of thousands that a special interest lobbyist would have to corrupt.
 
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#559
#559
Serene said:
I mean, you're just proving the point by coming up with some (misleading) statistic out of thin air to assign an "us" and "them". I mean, we're talking about unity here, not who pays what taxes. I guess you just really want to pay more taxes?
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No, I want to pay less taxes, however, a contribution from the 51% would be appreciated. Unity means that we all pull the rope with the same percentage of our capability. If I pull at 15%, I damn well want everyone else to pull at 15% too.
 
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#560
#560
PointGuard said:
So size of government is the sole issue? No I don’t think so. I believe that most people who committed an act of Terrorism on the Congress truly believe they acted as Patriots. But they believe that because they believed Trump rather than believing all of Trump’s federal election officials who proclaimed the election was honest

Would they not have had the same belief if the government was half the size

Would black’s protesting the murder if their own by rogue cops felt differently if the Federal government was half the size?

I agree the Federal government is too intrusive and too big. I added the other components because I believe each is a factor. I believe there are many more factors too
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Oh dear, you have completely turned your platform into a soapbox. Can't hide your stripes for more than an hour can you.
 
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#563
#563
Serene said:
The point is that there's always going to be people who think that the current leader of any government (federal, state, or local) are "imbeciles". You're not solving a problem of division by kicking the problem down from the federal to the state level. I'm not arguing that there are not advantages of having more localized governmental decisions (with federal protections of rights), but to act like decreasing the size of the federal government is some magic cure-all for division is misguided.
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For real Clark? The size of the Government is measured in $$. If you cut that in half as well as the current over reach in half you have solved A TON of problems.
 
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#565
#565
Sorry, but can’t even begin to make a connection between why through 2 separate examples I don’t feel the size of the Federal government is the sole cause of lack of unity and your reply to that comment
 
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#566
#566
SpaceCoastVol said:
Doesn't matter. We're equal, right? Where's my NBA contract? For that matter, why isn't he sitting in a hotel room in Cancun right now waiting to go to work this afternoon taking a 200,000 pound airplane with a hundred people to New York and then putting that airplane gently on the ground at 200 knots?

Equal.

Guys like Monty and bn that spout this 'we're all equal' gar-bage are usually ones that have never made it past minimum wage. In some ways we are equal. In MANY ways we are not.
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I feel for ya space, but if you’re white you are not even sniffing anywhere near the nba.
 
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#567
#567
82_VOL_83 said:
Please dear lord use that word correctly. There are two entire generations that do not know the meaning of the abbreviation vs. when used in conjunction with something vs. something else.
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I use common core grammar to compensate for educational inequalities of my blue collar upbringing.
Check your privilege fascist.

Guilty. Thank you for the correction btw.
 
#568
#568
PointGuard said:
Sorry, but can’t even begin to make a connection between why through 2 separate examples I don’t feel the size of the Federal government is the sole cause of lack of unity and your reply to that comment
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Who said it's the sole cause? It's the main cause but not the only by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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#570
#570
PointGuard said:
Sorry, but can’t even begin to make a connection between why through 2 separate examples I don’t feel the size of the Federal government is the sole cause of lack of unity and your reply to that comment
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Act of Terrorism? Laughable
Honest Election? I haven't listened to any of Trumps BS. The election was in the hat as soon as Pelosi got the unlimited Mail In ballots. Whether that won it or not, I don't know. Did it have an effect, absolutely.
Rogue Cops killing innocent black people? How many of the "one of their own" were know to have rap sheets and past run ins with the Cops. How many of them were "hunted down" like your boy Lebron wants to claim? Unjustified killings of black people by white cops makes up such a small % of black killings every year that it shows how misguided their protests, riots, burning of public and private buildings, looting millions of dollars of property, etc. really are.

Keep laughing.
 
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#571
#571
MemphisVol77 said:
I use common core grammar to compensate for educational inequalities of my blue collar upbringing.
Check your privilege fascist.

Guilty. Thank you for the correction btw.
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I don't care how you grammer otherwise, just for pete's sake, please use Verse and Versus properly.

/rant
 
#572
#572
82_VOL_83 said:
Act of Terrorism? Laughable
Honest Election? I haven't listened to any of Trumps BS. The election was in the hat as soon as Pelosi got the unlimited Mail In ballots. Whether that won it or not, I don't know. Did it have an effect, absolutely.
Rogue Cops killing innocent black people? How many of the "one of their own" were know to have rap sheets and past run ins with the Cops. How many of them were "hunted down" like your boy Lebron wants to claim? Unjustified killings of black people by white cops makes up such a small % of black killings every year that it shows how misguided their protests, riots, burning of public and private buildings, looting millions of dollars of property, etc. really are.

Keep laughing.
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While they weren't cops, those guys in Georgia absolutely hunted down the jogger and killed him
 
#573
#573
82_VOL_83 said:
I don't care how you grammer otherwise, just for pete's sake, please use Verse and Versus properly.

/rant
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I think someone just posted an honest and fair criticism of Fulmer over in the football forum. Before your razor thin skin begins to crack, you better get over there and defend him, Vicki
 
#574
#574
hog88 said:
Who said it's the sole cause? It's the main cause but not the only by any stretch of the imagination.
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I’m all about cutting into the 1 trillion in defense spending. Also for allowing roll over of unused funds so that agencies don’t max out spending to avoid future budget reductions, etc
 
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