Where do you stand on Healthcare?

How do you feel about the healthcare currently provided in the US?

  • It’s perfect the way it is. No changes necessary.

  • I like our system but it needs some tweaking.

  • I like the idea of our system but it has gotten much too expensive and needs major reform.

  • I think the format for providing healthcare is flawed and it needs rebuilt from the ground up.

  • Other

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#401
#401
VolStrom said:
So who decides when someone is sick whether they get treated or not? You?, the government? your neighbor? Are you willing to bankrupt yourself to provide healthcare for an uninsured relative? I for the life of me don't understand the thought processes of people like you.
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So first off we have Medicaid. Second I recognized the need at a very young age and made sure I had benefits. I’ve had them all my life because I prioritized them. You can play the moral high ground if you like but it won’t sway me. People are responsible for their own outcomes in life. It isn’t the governments responsibility to guarantee those outcomes.
 
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#402
#402
Roustabout said:
I’ll be happy to explain.
It’s not a right.
SHOULD we work to make sure everyone has access to healthcare and affordability? Yes.
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And people are responsible for their own coverage.

I’m not opposed to removing impediments either. I’ve made no statement as such. But no it isn’t a right which must be provided to you.
 
#403
#403
NorthDallas40 said:
And people are responsible for their own coverage.

I’m not opposed to removing impediments either. I’ve made no statement as such. But no it isn’t a right which must be provided to you.
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The problem with the Republican side is they’ve done NOTHING to offer solutions. Nothing to reduce costs. nothing at all.
 
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#404
#404
Roustabout said:
The problem with the Republican side is they’ve done NOTHING to offer solutions. Nothing to reduce costs. nothing at all.
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I do agree that being obstructionist is wrong. And to your point we should do what we can to remove barriers.

But let’s explore this concept of healthcare as a “right”. If it’s a right when you need healthcare it must be provided to you correct? How is that exactly done? Are we able to make a demand order and conscript a provider.

The term “right” has been thrown around so damn long and carelessly that it’s diluted. Very few things are “rights”.

I made a couple of posts earlier in this thread on costs that I am currently experiencing on shoulder surgery.

The surgery Center published rate was $53k, they accepted $9k

The surgeon published rate was $9k, he accepted $1k

Each therapy session is $150-300 depending on how much is done. They accept $50-100.

That’s broken. Plain and simple. I’ll assume they are not losing money on providing me those services as those are the negotiated rates for everybody in my United Healthcare pool. So why exact those published rates on somebody whom didn’t have the negotiation power? BUT who has the right to arbitrarily fix the providers profits? While they did agree to the UHC rates I saw they were not forced to do so. I’ll admit I don’t have an answer. How do you get the stupid out of billing while not turning healthcare providers into conscripts? 🤷‍♂️
 
#405
#405
Roustabout said:
The problem with the Republican side is they’ve done NOTHING to offer solutions. Nothing to reduce costs. nothing at all.
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Actions (or lack thereof) reveal intent. The intent is to continue profiteering in healthcare, no matter the consequences.
 
#409
#409
hog88 said:
None of your answers fit what I would I would do if King for the day.

1. Do away with employer provided health insurance. People have to purchase policies on their own.
2. Make health insurance premiums 100% deductible from an individuals taxes.
3. Make contributions to an HSA 100% tax deductible up to 10k per year. Money can be passed down in inheritance.
4. Allow healthcare providers to deny service to people that can't pay.

Those would be the 1st changes I would make. And to clarify on the tax deductibility of insurance premiums I mean regardless if you itemize or not it is deductible.
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Quick question, because I might like to debate you a little on this, what about Medicare and Medicare Supplement Plans? Also, as to #4, how would you handle indigent?
 
#410
#410
OHvol40 said:
He said republicans aren’t solution oriented, didn’t mention you. If you want to lump yourself in, feel free.
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I was more about just responding to your drive by turd toss.

So scroll up and look at my cost example. Without government provided single payer (which isn’t going to happen) how do you coerce providers to recognize that they are already entering willing agreements at lower cost points due to negotiating power so why penalize an individual? How do you do that within a free market framework because that is what we are. It’s silly to make demand for a total of $62k they will never see and they’ve already agreed to $10k for a huge amount of people.

I’m all for putting that same rate to all the people, but I’m not going to pay it for them they are responsible for their own costs. And how do you do it without infringing on the free market providers of those services to set their own costs?
 
#411
#411
PEPPERJAX said:
Ok gotcha. Along those same lines, the corporation that employs me provides annual reviews with increases. I am thankful for my job and it pays well but as soon as we get our pay increase it is somewhat negated by the spike in our medical/dental coverage that happens every year. Another thing that seriously irks me are the incentives employees get for meeting the low BMI and non-tobacco use. These are typical industry standard incentives. My wife and I are under the same family plan and meet the requirements of low BMI/non tobacco to keep rates low. We eat healthy for the most part, exercise, and maintain good health. Many of my co-workers at the office are morbidly obese & some people smoke packs of cigarettes daily. All they have to do to prevent their rates from spiking is simply have a physician sign a form and write a letter stating that they are on plan to lose weight or in the process of not smoking. That is fine the company allows it but Most of them never go through with that BS and still eat doughnuts at their desk all day. There needs to be added incentives for people that don’t live like slobs.
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Not discounting what you are saying, but, what about diabete, MS, Leukemia, gosh a host of other birth defects, auto immune etc.
 
#412
#412
Nasavol said:
Not discounting what you are saying, but, what about diabete, MS, Leukemia, gosh a host of other birth defects, auto immune etc.
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Take a look at the post right above yours and let me know what you think.

I don’t believe healthcare is a right.

I’m all for obvious cost reductions while maintaining a free market environment

So how do we do that without throwing the baby out with the bath water?
 
#414
#414
OHvol40 said:
He said republicans aren’t solution oriented, didn’t mention you. If you want to lump yourself in, feel free.
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Both sides are equal..... democrats have offered poor solutions that buy votes from groups that feel disenfranchised..... neither side is offering any real solutions.
 
#415
#415
Nasavol said:
Not discounting what you are saying, but, what about diabete, MS, Leukemia, gosh a host of other birth defects, auto immune etc.
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Point I was trying to make was the reason a lot of people are unhealthy is because They make poor decisions putting themselves in bad shape.
 
#416
#416
NorthDallas40 said:
I was more about just responding to your drive by turd toss.

So scroll up and look at my cost example. Without government provided single payer (which isn’t going to happen) how do you coerce providers to recognize that they are already entering willing agreements at lower cost points due to negotiating power so why penalize an individual? How do you do that within a free market framework because that is what we are. It’s silly to make demand for a total of $62k they will never see and they’ve already agreed to $10k for a huge amount of people.

I’m all for putting that same rate to all the people, but I’m not going to pay it for them they are responsible for their own costs. And how do you do it without infringing on the free market providers of those services to set their own costs?
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So @OHvol40 do you have an idea how to address this? How can you lower costs charged in a free market system without fixing providers profits?
 
#417
#417
NorthDallas40 said:
Take a look at the post right above yours and let me know what you think.

I don’t believe healthcare is a right.

I’m all for obvious cost reductions while maintaining a free market environment

So how do we do that without throwing the baby out with the bath water?
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I honestly have no idea how to fix this fiasco called healthcare that we have now. I honestly don’t. I’m a little different than you, I do think ACCESS to AFFORDABLE healthcare is our duty as the largest free country in the world. Basically ND40, I think it is the Christian thing to do.
 
#418
#418
NorthDallas40 said:
I was more about just responding to your drive by turd toss.

So scroll up and look at my cost example. Without government provided single payer (which isn’t going to happen) how do you coerce providers to recognize that they are already entering willing agreements at lower cost points due to negotiating power so why penalize an individual? How do you do that within a free market framework because that is what we are. It’s silly to make demand for a total of $62k they will never see and they’ve already agreed to $10k for a huge amount of people.

I’m all for putting that same rate to all the people, but I’m not going to pay it for them they are responsible for their own costs. And how do you do it without infringing on the free market providers of those services to set their own costs?
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To me, this is a false dichotomy. Free market principles are applicable to most sectors, and may work very well. There are two sectors I view free market principles as detrimental to the intent of those sectors. Healthcare and education.
The intent of healthcare is to provide the most competent, comprehensive care to the most amount of people as possible. A healthcare system based in profit puts this inherent intent of healthcare at odds with profit as a primary motivating factor. Our healthcare “system” (it’s not really a healthcare system, it’s just a health insurance system) is a giant catch 22. It’s primary motivating factor is making money and patient care is the secondary motivating factor. When push comes to shove, profitability always supersedes what is best for the patient. That is why proper healthcare cannot be steeped in profiteering.

I can’t articulate how incredibly frustrating it is as a healthcare worker to continuously identify simple, inexpensive solutions to patient care problems that get vetoed by MBAs who have never cared for a patient because my solution costs $1.50 more per patient... even if the benefit is well worth the cost.
 
#419
#419
Nasavol said:
I honestly have no idea how to fix this fiasco called healthcare that we have now. I honestly don’t. I’m a little different than you, I do think ACCESS to AFFORDABLE healthcare is our duty as the largest free country in the world. Basically ND40, I think it is the Christian thing to do.
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So you believe it’s a RIGHT which must be provided or it’s our DUTY to remove impediments to maximum extent possible? No on the former yes on the latter for me.

If you’re a yes on the former how do you actually force healthcare to be provided? Seriously over the long term if the field becomes unattractive due to expectation of income are we going to conscript people? How can you actually force healthcare to be available on demand.
 
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#420
#420
OHvol40 said:
To me, this is a false dichotomy. Free market principles are applicable to most sectors, and may work very well. There are two sectors I view free market principles as detrimental to the intent of those sectors. Healthcare and education.
The intent of healthcare is to provide the most competent, comprehensive care to the most amount of people as possible. A healthcare system based in profit puts this inherent intent of healthcare at odds with profit as a primary motivating factor. Our healthcare “system” (it’s not really a healthcare system, it’s just a health insurance system) is a giant catch 22. It’s primary motivating factor is making money and patient care is the secondary motivating factor. When push comes to shove, profitability always supersedes what is best for the patient. That is why proper healthcare cannot be steeped in profiteering.

I can’t articulate how incredibly frustrating it is as a healthcare worker to continuously identify simple, inexpensive solutions to patient care problems that get vetoed by MBAs who have never cares for a patient because my solution costs $1.50 more per patient... even if the benefit is well worth the cost.
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A dichotomy is an untenable either/or scenario. To make that claim you are implying you cannot provide adequate access and cost AND maintain a free market system. Is that your assertion then?
 
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#421
#421
NorthDallas40 said:
A false dichotomy is an untenable either/or scenario. To make that claim you are implying you cannot provide adequate access and cost AND maintain a free market system. Is that your assertion then?
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In short, yes. Not necessarily only adequate access, but responsible patient care decision-making.
 
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