Where were you? - September 11, 2001

[NEO]

The bullet hole was on the left center of the windshield (driver's side). My theory is based on the idea that a shot from the front hit the driver's side of the windshield and hit JFK in the throat. The bullet going through the windshield slowed it down enough to where it didn't go all the way through, which is why JFK leaned forward with both hands in the Zapruder film. The mans the trajectory of that shot had to come in the direction of the Triple Underpass.

I know you have read thr theory where one of the actual secret service actually shot him, probably by accident, and it was covered up.

Theory is the service member was exhausted from the previous night of drinking they had, which is documented, and when he heard the first shot he swung his rifle, which is documented video a photo, and accidentally fired and hit JFK in the throat.


I dont think it will ever come our completely what happened though.

 

[508mikey]

start video at 9.0 this is how the Kennedy shooting went down

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I have to admit I watched the NIST explanation with the sound off, and I accepted steel structure compromise do to intense heat years ago. A couple of things I'd recommend considering. There's basically one view of the collapse - external from ground level, so you don't get to see what happened inside the walls. Secondly, every building demolition I've seen clearly shows the charges that explode prior to collapse. Maybe you saw that; I didn't - again supporting extreme heat damage to the metal structure to me. I spent several years doing structural analysis - primarily vibration related problems; I still don't consider myself an expert but probably a little more knowledgeable than most people. Put it this way - I don't think I've got all the answers, and I'm experienced enough now to realize I don't even have a handle on all the questions. However, if you do modal testing on structures, and view the animated contortions that structures go through when excited by outside forces (illustrated 1st, 2nd, 3rd bending modes etc) you do understand the failure mechanism really starts with a little weakness somewhere in the structure. I'm perfectly satisfied with extreme heat related steel failure starting in a lower floor causing sympathetic failure throughout the structure.

There are several videos out that show what appear to be charges or something similar.

View the Kansas City Hyatt walkway collapse. The second level collapsing on the first level and bringing it down takes no imagination to understand. Now consider what would have been the effect if the second level had been supporting a third and fourth level when it collapsed - they aren't up there because of a magic sky hook. Gravity (and usually momentum) always win, and gravity wins downward and momentum knows only one direction with static structures.

the problem is that we are talking about over 100 floors collapsing on top of one another. If we are talking about a 3-5 story building, I would be more than willing to buy into the NIST narrative.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I know you have read thr theory where one of the actual secret service actually shot him, probably by accident, and it was covered up.

Yeah, and I don't believe it. That theory originated in the mid-70s when the Zapruder film was first released. The only thing that makes me question Bill Greer (the limo driver) is that there are several eyewitness accounts of the car seeming to stop and a photo taken between Elm and Main in the grass field that shows the brake lights being applied during the time that Kennedy and Connerly were being hit. That is why I said earlier that the amount of time assumed that Oswald needed to fire off 3 shots is a subject for another debate, because the timeline that is established by the Warren Commission does not include the few seconds that car could have been stopped or slowing down. That is also one of the things that may have been modified on the Zapruder film... showing the car stopping or slowing down during the time shots were being fired.

Theory is the service member was exhausted from the previous night of drinking they had, which is documented, and when he heard the first shot he swung his rifle, which is documented video a photo, and accidentally fired and hit JFK in the throat.

The Secret Service did hang out late the night before, you are correct, that is documented.

 

[ajvol01]

Yeah, and I don't believe it. That theory originated in the mid-70s when the Zapruder film was first released. The only thing that makes me question Bill Greer (the limo driver) is that there are several eyewitness accounts of the car seeming to stop and a photo taken between Elm and Main in the grass field that shows the brake lights being applied during the time that Kennedy and Connerly were being hit. That is why I said earlier that the amount of time assumed that Oswald needed to fire off 3 shots is a subject for another debate, because the timeline that is established by the Warren Commission does not include the few seconds that car could have been stopped or slowing down. That is also one of the things that may have been modified on the Zapruder film... showing the car stopping or slowing down during the time shots were being fired.


The Secret Service did hang out late the night before, you are correct, that is documented.

William Cooper (Hour of the Time) bought into this theory. It just didn’t happen.

Of all the theories I’ve heard, this IMO is the least likely.

 

[AM64]

There are several videos out that show what appear to be charges or something similar.


the problem is that we are talking about over 100 floors collapsing on top of one another. If we are talking about a 3-5 story building, I would be more than willing to buy into the NIST narrative.

You know when there's an internal collapse, that smoke, dust, and other debris will be ejected by air pressure. It may be difficult to visualize a vertical domino event; but when one floor collapses under another, that's pretty much the scenario. I just don't see this as a case where the analysis would need to be tweaked to protect the "innocent".

As far as shooting down an airliner, my brother and I talked about that years ago, and I've forgotten his response. I think (without hard evidence) that most pilots flying for major US airlines are ex-military pilots. My brother flew fighter interceptors and then flew another 20+ years for Delta after retiring from the AF. Many pilots he flew with at Delta were still reserve and NG pilots, and a lot of the air defense mission has apparently been turned over to them. Under that scenario, I can't imagine how difficult it would be for a fighter pilot to fire on an airliner or how it could be kept quiet.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

William Cooper (Hour of the Time) bought into this theory. It just didn’t happen.

Of all the theories I’ve heard, this IMO is the least likely.

Yeah, I mentioned it originated at the time the Zapruder film was released because that is significant. In the mid-70s, there probably was enough access to get film technology to break down closely frame by frame, and what many thought was Greer turning a firing a shot was likely just the shine or glare from his hair or something.

And besides, if me or you were sitting where Connerly was, we would have at least known a shot that originated in the vehicle.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

start video at 9.0 this is how the Kennedy shooting went down

With regards to two shooters in the TSBD, the live oak tree in front of the building would have made a shot from 6th floor sniper's nest in the SE corner hard enough, but having another shooter on the opposite side/SW corner would have probably been just as difficult if not more so.

I'm thinking Charles Nicoletti and any others would have been in the Dal-Tex Building, which is right across the street from the TSBD on Elm and Houston. From the Dal-Tex Building, there would have been a more unobstructed sight line to the kill zone. Also, the spent 30.06 shell found by a maintenance worker in the mid 1970s indicates that there was possibly a shooter on top of the Dallas Records Building, which is I think right next to the Dal-Tex Building on Houston.

I'm not ruling out two shooters in the TSBD, however.

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

There are several videos out that show what appear to be charges or something similar.


the problem is that we are talking about over 100 floors collapsing on top of one another. If we are talking about a 3-5 story building, I would be more than willing to buy into the NIST narrative.

If the buildings in NYC were brought down by controlled explosives, what were the planes used for? Who had control of them, and how did they gain control?

 

[NEO]

William Cooper (Hour of the Time) bought into this theory. It just didn’t happen.

Of all the theories I’ve heard, this IMO is the least likely.

What theory do you consider the best?

I fall under the camp that Oswald did not act alone but beyond that I havent found anything I can hang my hat on.

I do think the mob was involved and LBJ but that's simply my opinion.

 

[VolStrom]

I'm just amazed that nearly 60 years later, people are still talking about JFK's death. Same thing with the WTC towers nearly 20 years later. You guys know that the British are really behind the Pearl Harbor attack don't you, look it up.

 

[ajvol01]

What theory do you consider the best?

I fall under the camp that Oswald did not act alone but beyond that I havent found anything I can hang my hat on.

I do think the mob was involved and LBJ but that's simply my opinion.

Oswald was definitely involved, but I’m sure there were other shooters involved.

I agree with LBJ and am open to all others (Mob, CIA, etc) potential involvement.

It must be pretty damning if they can’t release the details 57 years later.

Almost makes you think the truth would cause distrust of the government and media, huh?

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Oswald bought a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 x 52 rifle through the mail. That gun could barely hit a barn from the inside. No evidence he ever sighted it in. None. He was an average shot. Good Lord, does anyone here really believe he could do all of that damage in 8.3 seconds, with a bolt-action rifle that took over 2 seconds to cycle and get back on the scope? Half of his time is gone just cycling the bolt. If you want to know how long 4.3 seconds is...you just spent it reading this sentence. Now imagine putting two more well-aimed shots at a moving target the size of a pumpkin...at 90 yards...with an Italian WW2 rifle that you've never shot before, in roughly 4 seconds.

Luckiest sniper ever. Or most famous patsy ever.

I'll take "Biggest Lies the Government Ever Told" for 1000, Alex.

 

[NEO]

Oswald bought a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 x 52 rifle through the mail. That gun could barely hit a barn from the inside. No evidence he ever sighted it in. None. He was an average shot. Good Lord, does anyone here really believe he could do all of that damage in 8.3 seconds, with a bolt-action rifle that took over 2 seconds to cycle and get back on the scope? Half of his time is gone just cycling the bolt. If you want to know how long 4.3 seconds is...you just spent it reading this sentence. Now imagine putting two more well-aimed shots at a moving target the size of a pumpkin...at 90 yards...with an Italian WW2 rifle that you've never shot before, in roughly 4 seconds.

Luckiest sniper ever. Or most famous patsy ever.

I'll take "Biggest Lies the Government Ever Told" for 1000, Alex.

What if it wasn't the biggest lie but just a normal average day lie that got caught on national tv?

Cause I think this was just another day at the office for our CIA and FBI.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Oswald bought a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5 x 52 rifle through the mail. That gun could barely hit a barn from the inside. No evidence he ever sighted it in. None. He was an average shot. Good Lord, does anyone here really believe he could do all of that damage in 8.3 seconds, with a bolt-action rifle that took over 2 seconds to cycle and get back on the scope? Half of his time is gone just cycling the bolt. If you want to know how long 4.3 seconds is...you just spent it reading this sentence. Now imagine putting two more well-aimed shots at a moving target the size of a pumpkin...at 90 yards...with an Italian WW2 rifle that you've never shot before, in roughly 4 seconds.

Luckiest sniper ever. Or most famous patsy ever.

I'll take "Biggest Lies the Government Ever Told" for 1000, Alex.

The original rifle found on the 6th Floor was reported to be a Mauser. Dallas Officer Roger Craig and another high ranking Dallas cop found it within 30 mins of the shooting.

Then of course there is that pristine bullet found on a gurney in Parkland Hospital that was supposed to have been the one coming out of Connerly.

 

[AM64]

What if it wasn't the biggest lie but just a normal average day lie that got caught on national tv?

Cause I think this was just another day at the office for our CIA and FBI.

Have you read that 15 phones important to the Mueller probe were wiped basically "by accident"? Apparently one phone just did it by itself, and at least a couple more - including that of Lisa Page - were somehow reset to factory settings - meaning zapped.

 

[ajvol01]

Have you read that 15 phones important to the Mueller probe were wiped basically "by accident"? Apparently one phone just did it by itself, and at least a couple more - including that of Lisa Page - were somehow reset to factory settings - meaning zapped.

Nothing to see here. Happens every day

 

[Rickyvol77]

What theory do you consider the best?

I fall under the camp that Oswald did not act alone but beyond that I havent found anything I can hang my hat on.

I do think the mob was involved and LBJ but that's simply my opinion.

Definitely a mix of Oswald, CIA/army and mafia

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I'm just amazed that nearly 60 years later, people are still talking about JFK's death. Same thing with the WTC towers nearly 20 years later. You guys know that the British are really behind the Pearl Harbor attack don't you, look it up.

I thought is was the Germans

 

[VolStrom]

I thought is was the Germans

It's a common misconception. The Italians were in cahoots with the Germans, which were fighting the Russians who were in cahoots with the British. German traitors were funneling information to the Japanese which in turn funneled it through the Chinese and back through the Australians. The Queen demanded that the Aussies hand over the info through the New Zealand embassy which in turn made the British responsible.

 

[AM64]

It's a common misconception. The Italians were in cahoots with the Germans, which were fighting the Russians who were in cahoots with the British. German traitors were funneling information to the Japanese which in turn funneled it through the Chinese and back through the Australians. The Queen demanded that the Aussies hand over the info through the New Zealand embassy which in turn made the British responsible.

So you're saying, "It's complicated"?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's good we can find humor in a scheme that helped push us into World War II... Adm. Husband Kimmel's life and reputation were ruined because he was chosen to be the fall guy for what happened on December 7th.

 

[ajvol01]

It's good we can find humor in a scheme that helped push us into World War II... Adm. Husband Kimmel's life and reputation were ruined because he was chosen to be the fall guy for what happened on December 7th.

My dad told me FDR knew about Pearl Harbor when I wrote a book report on him in elementary school.

I didn’t think much of it back then (late 70s / early 80s). Now

 

[TheColdVolTruth]

Cellphone usage on the planes and 3 buildings falling completely within their footprints in a manner such as a controlled demolition is a lot to buy. But I admit, I did buy it for about 10 years...

You seem to not want to answer questions, yet you clearly enjoy decrying what others claim to be fact while spouting utter nonsense yourself. It's one thing to question events. It's quite another to be so obtuse that you can only question and ridicule the beliefs or thoughts of others while offering no complete opinion or thoughts on such a widely viewed event. You continue to claim three buildings fell within their footprint in a manner consistent with controlled demolition.

Here is the debris field of the Bank of Lisbon tower after being demolished in Johannesburg.



Here is the debris field at ground zero.


Those squares denote the footprint and are more than 200' on each side for scale. Anyone who thinks those buildings fell within their respective footprints is either a damn fool or intellectually dishonest.

 

[ajvol01]

You seem to not want to answer questions, yet you clearly enjoy decrying what others claim to be fact while spouting utter nonsense yourself. It's one thing to question events. It's quite another to be so obtuse that you can only question and ridicule the beliefs or thoughts of others while offering no complete opinion or thoughts on such a widely viewed event. You continue to claim three buildings fell within their footprint in a manner consistent with controlled demolition.

Here is the debris field of the Bank of Lisbon tower after being demolished in Johannesburg.

View attachment 306529

Here is the debris field at ground zero.
View attachment 306530

Those squares denote the footprint and are more than 200' on each side for scale. Anyone who thinks those buildings fell within their respective footprints is either a damn fool or intellectually dishonest.

Any photos of WTC 7 debris field?

Just curious how it would compare.