Where were you? - September 11, 2001

#303
#303
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not sure if serious, but in case you were, its more likely that it came from the direction of the of Commerce/Main St near the Triple Overpass area instead of the Grassy Knoll.
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Well, it was purely a guess. It’s been a number of years since I was in Dealey Plaza. From what I remember of it, I think both locations would be possible. Just not sure. I don’t necessarily subscribe to conspiracy theories, but I do believe in coordination at the highest levels.
 
#304
#304
Vol737 said:
Well, it was purely a guess. It’s been a number of years since I was in Dealey Plaza. From what I remember of it, I think both locations would be possible. Just not sure. I don’t necessarily subscribe to conspiracy theories, but I do believe in coordination at the highest levels.
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The bullet hole was on the left center of the windshield (driver's side). My theory is based on the idea that a shot from the front hit the driver's side of the windshield and hit JFK in the throat. The bullet going through the windshield slowed it down enough to where it didn't go all the way through, which is why JFK leaned forward with both hands in the Zapruder film. The mans the trajectory of that shot had to come in the direction of the Triple Underpass.
 
#305
#305
Rasputin_Vol said:
The bullet hole was on the left center of the windshield (driver's side). My theory is based on the idea that a shot from the front hit the driver's side of the windshield and hit JFK in the throat. The bullet going through the windshield slowed it down enough to where it didn't go all the way through, which is why JFK leaned forward with both hands in the Zapruder film. The mans the trajectory of that shot had to come in the direction of the Triple Underpass.
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Here we go.....

3 shooters (at least). Possibly two behind, two ahead. Oswald never fired a shot. He was, in fact, a patsy.

Also don't think Oswald killed Tippitt. They wanted Oswald shot dead on sight, and by having him as the suspect in the death of Ofc. Tippitt, they figured DPD would shoot on sight. Jack Ruby became the emergency fill-in. They (whoever that is) could not allow Oswald to stand trial. That would have risked uncovering the whole, complicated plot to kill JFK, including elements inside the U.S. Government.

LBJ knew, and signed off on it. Not the first time he got blood on his hands.

We all have our opinions. The actual truth will likely never be known for certain, but the book "Best Evidence" by David Lifton, and the deathbed writings of E. Howard Hunt (who was both in the know and on the ground in Dealey) are a couple of good places to start your quest.

And yes, the Zapruder film was altered...
 
#306
#306
@Rasputin_Vol and @ajvol01
What do you think occurred that day? I may have missed your thoughts in this thread. I've seen both of you questioning the majority opinion, but I haven't seen a hypothesis as to what either of you believe happened. I'm truly intrigued as to what part, if any, of the story as it is widely believed and reported that you agree with and which parts you disagree with. What do you think caused the damage to WTC 1, 2, and 7? What caused them to fall? What caused the damage to the pentagon? What caused the hole in the ground in PA? Who was behind it? Again, if I've missed this, I apologize, but I've seen much questioning of the mainstream reporting with little to no theory as to what you believe occurred.
 
#307
#307
TheColdVolTruth said:
@Rasputin_Vol and @ajvol01
What do you think occurred that day? I may have missed your thoughts in this thread. I've seen both of you questioning the majority opinion, but I haven't seen a hypothesis as to what either of you believe happened. I'm truly intrigued as to what part, if any, of the story as it is widely believed and reported that you agree with and which parts you disagree with. What do you think caused the damage to WTC 1, 2, and 7? What caused them to fall? What caused the damage to the pentagon? What caused the hole in the ground in PA? Who was behind it? Again, if I've missed this, I apologize, but I've seen much questioning of the mainstream reporting with little to no theory as to what you believe occurred.
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My main point of contention is specifically with the official NIST report / explanation for the collapse of WTC 7.

We’ve all seen the video. The top of the building caves in first and then the rest of the building follows shortly thereafter. A uniform nearly free fall collapse into its own footprint.

The NIST explanation that 1 column failed causing
a domino effect doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

The link below has some additional information.

Free-Fall Acceleration | World Trade Center Building 7
 
#308
#308
ajvol01 said:
My main point of contention is specifically with the official NIST report / explanation for the collapse of WTC 7.

We’ve all seen the video. The top of the building caves in first and then the rest of the building follows shortly thereafter. A uniform nearly free fall collapse into its own footprint.

The NIST explanation that 1 column failed causing
a domino effect doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

The link below has some additional information.

Free-Fall Acceleration | World Trade Center Building 7
Click to expand...

I understand you question the NIST explanation, but do you have a theory or opinion as to what caused WTC 7 to fall as it did?

You also posted the following in response to ras questioning the box cutters, hijacker passports, communication from the airline passengers, and buildings (plural) falling all over NY..

ajvol01 said:
It’s so obvious now. Sickening.
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What is obvious now?
 
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#309
#309
GreyWolf1129 said:
Here we go.....

3 shooters (at least). Possibly two behind, two ahead. Oswald never fired a shot. He was, in fact, a patsy.

Also don't think Oswald killed Tippitt. They wanted Oswald shot dead on sight, and by having him as the suspect in the death of Ofc. Tippitt, they figured DPD would shoot on sight. Jack Ruby became the emergency fill-in. They (whoever that is) could not allow Oswald to stand trial. That would have risked uncovering the whole, complicated plot to kill JFK, including elements inside the U.S. Government.

LBJ knew, and signed off on it. Not the first time he got blood on his hands.

We all have our opinions. The actual truth will likely never be known for certain, but the book "Best Evidence" by David Lifton, and the deathbed writings of E. Howard Hunt (who was both in the know and on the ground in Dealey) are a couple of good places to start your quest.

And yes, the Zapruder film was altered...
Click to expand...
Pretty much. I've said before on here that there is a 90% chance that Oswald didn't fire a shot on the 6th floor of the TSBD and about a 50% he didn't shoot Tippit. I only say 50/50 because there is a possibility that he did kill him in self-defense.

Not enough attention has been given to the events in Oak Cliff and to all of the nonsense that went down there. Had a serious investigation gone on there, I think we would have gotten a lot closer to solving most of this.
 
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#310
#310
TheColdVolTruth said:
@Rasputin_Vol and @ajvol01
What do you think occurred that day? I may have missed your thoughts in this thread. I've seen both of you questioning the majority opinion, but I haven't seen a hypothesis as to what either of you believe happened. I'm truly intrigued as to what part, if any, of the story as it is widely believed and reported that you agree with and which parts you disagree with. What do you think caused the damage to WTC 1, 2, and 7? What caused them to fall? What caused the damage to the pentagon? What caused the hole in the ground in PA? Who was behind it? Again, if I've missed this, I apologize, but I've seen much questioning of the mainstream reporting with little to no theory as to what you believe occurred.
Click to expand...
As I had stated earlier, I am not buying the official story (anymore). I can remember for a long time mocking the "truthers" and trying to discredit them... until I found out about Building 7. I simply had no idea about Building 7 until about 9-10 years later. I faintly remember reports on 9/11 about a building collapsing or caving in, but there must have been so much going on that day, that I missed the video of it coming down and/or I simply downplayed the news of a third building falling.
 
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#311
#311
TheColdVolTruth said:
I understand you question the NIST explanation, but do you have a theory or opinion as to what caused WTC 7 to fall as it did?

You also posted the following in response to ras questioning the box cutters, hijacker passports, communication from the airline passengers, and buildings (plural) falling all over NY..



What is obvious now?
Click to expand...
That the “official” story as reported by the media is not nearly the whole story.

What are the odds that 1 large jet is hijacked only with box cutters?

Now ask what are the odds that 4 large jets are hijacked only with box cutters on the same day?

You can apply these types of questions to the events of the entire day.

How did the hijackers successfully hit 3 of 4 targets when they supposedly learned to fly on Cessnas?

Where was all the plane wreckage in Pennsylvania?

Ever heard of Operation Northwoods?

Alone, none of these are proof of anything. However, you put all of these individual pieces together and it provides enough for me to doubt we know the half of what really happened or who was behind it.
 
#312
#312
Rasputin_Vol said:
As I had stated earlier, I am not buying the official story (anymore). I can remember for a long time mocking the "truthers" and trying to discredit them... until I found out about Building 7. I simply had no idea about Building 7 until about 9-10 years later. I faintly remember reports on 9/11 about a building collapsing or caving in, but there must have been so much going on that day, that I missed the video of it coming down and/or I simply downplayed the news of a third building falling.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're not buying. My question is what, if anything, are you buying? Do you have a working theory, and, if so, where does your theory deviate from the opinion of the masses? What do you think happened at WTC 7? Do you believe it was related to WTC 1&2? The Pentagon? Shanksville? I'm looking to gain the perspective of what you think occurred.
 
#313
#313
ajvol01 said:
That the “official” story as reported by the media is not nearly the whole story.

What are the odds that 1 large jet is hijacked only with box cutters?

Now ask what are the odds that 4 large jets are hijacked only with box cutters on the same day?

You can apply these types of questions to the events of the entire day.

How did the hijackers successfully hit 3 of 4 targets when they supposedly learned to fly on Cessnas?

Where was all the plane wreckage in Pennsylvania?

Ever heard of Operation Northwoods?

Alone, none of these are proof of anything. However, you put all of these individual pieces together and it provides enough for me to doubt we know the half of what really happened or who was behind it.
Click to expand...

I understand you question the story. I've never heard of Operation Northwoods, but I have considered the other questions you listed. All I'm asking is do you have a working theory of what happened? I'm not asking for links, I'm just asking for your point of view. Perhaps you don't have an opinion of what occurred and are simply questioning the story as it is widely reported, but I was just interested in what you guys actually think happened if it was not as it is reported.
 
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#314
#314
TheColdVolTruth said:
I understand you question the story. I've never heard of Operation Northwoods, but I have considered the other questions you listed. All I'm asking is do you have a working theory of what happened? I'm not asking for links, I'm just asking for your point of view. Perhaps you don't have an opinion of what occurred and are simply questioning the story as it is widely reported, but I was just interested in what you guys actually think happened if it was not as it is reported.
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I don’t know what happened. I just don’t buy the official version of what happened.
 
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#316
#316
TheColdVolTruth said:
I understand what you're not buying. My question is what, if anything, are you buying? Do you have a working theory, and, if so, where does your theory deviate from the opinion of the masses? What do you think happened at WTC 7? Do you believe it was related to WTC 1&2? The Pentagon? Shanksville? I'm looking to gain the perspective of what you think occurred.
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1. I believe that the plane in Shanksville was shot down
2. The only explanation for having 3 buildings fall within their footprints would be some type of controlled demolition
 
#318
#318
TheColdVolTruth said:
What about the Pentagon?
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Meh, I never did go into a lot of research regarding the Pentagon because it took me 9-10 years just to catch up with what all went down in NYC. I can sort of see the arguments made about the size of the debris field being rather light and I can also respect the questioning of lack of video evidence at the Pentagon at the time of collision... but I just haven't gone that far to research it... or been too interested in it I guess.
 
#319
#319
Rasputin_Vol said:
Meh, I never did go into a lot of research regarding the Pentagon because it took me 9-10 years just to catch up with what all went down in NYC. I can sort of see the arguments made about the size of the debris field being rather light and I can also respect the questioning of lack of video evidence at the Pentagon at the time of collision... but I just haven't gone that far to research it... or been too interested in it I guess.
Click to expand...

Who do you think flew the planes into WTC 1&2, and what was the reason?
 
#320
#320
Rasputin_Vol said:
Pretty much. I've said before on here that there is a 90% chance that Oswald didn't fire a shot on the 6th floor of the TSBD and about a 50% he didn't shoot Tippit. I only say 50/50 because there is a possibility that he did kill him in self-defense.

Not enough attention has been given to the events in Oak Cliff and to all of the nonsense that went down there. Had a serious investigation gone on there, I think we would have gotten a lot closer to solving most of this.
Click to expand...
Can you expand on the Oak Cliff events I had not heard about that.

For the record ive always found JFK's death suspicious and accepted it was a hit. I believe he was becoming too powerful, too well liked, and was close to taking down huge parts of some very dangerous mobs and he was taken out.
 
#321
#321
mr.checkerboards said:
Can you expand on the Oak Cliff events I had not heard about that.

For the record ive always found JFK's death suspicious and accepted it was a hit. I believe he was becoming too powerful, too well liked, and was close to taking down huge parts of some very dangerous mobs and he was taken out.
Click to expand...
Watch this video, pay special attention to the testimony of Kenneth Kroy (or Croy).




Now let that sink in, and move to about the 7:53 mark of this video and let the arresting officer at the Texas Theatre tell you about how they were able to identify Oswald. Keep in mind, this interview was done the day after the assassination...

 
#325
#325
ajvol01 said:
My main point of contention is specifically with the official NIST report / explanation for the collapse of WTC 7.

We’ve all seen the video. The top of the building caves in first and then the rest of the building follows shortly thereafter. A uniform nearly free fall collapse into its own footprint.

The NIST explanation that 1 column failed causing
a domino effect doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

The link below has some additional information.

Free-Fall Acceleration | World Trade Center Building 7
Click to expand...

I have to admit I watched the NIST explanation with the sound off, and I accepted steel structure compromise do to intense heat years ago. A couple of things I'd recommend considering. There's basically one view of the collapse - external from ground level, so you don't get to see what happened inside the walls. Secondly, every building demolition I've seen clearly shows the charges that explode prior to collapse. Maybe you saw that; I didn't - again supporting extreme heat damage to the metal structure to me. I spent several years doing structural analysis - primarily vibration related problems; I still don't consider myself an expert but probably a little more knowledgeable than most people. Put it this way - I don't think I've got all the answers, and I'm experienced enough now to realize I don't even have a handle on all the questions. However, if you do modal testing on structures, and view the animated contortions that structures go through when excited by outside forces (illustrated 1st, 2nd, 3rd bending modes etc) you do understand the failure mechanism really starts with a little weakness somewhere in the structure. I'm perfectly satisfied with extreme heat related steel failure starting in a lower floor causing sympathetic failure throughout the structure.

View the Kansas City Hyatt walkway collapse. The second level collapsing on the first level and bringing it down takes no imagination to understand. Now consider what would have been the effect if the second level had been supporting a third and fourth level when it collapsed - they aren't up there because of a magic sky hook. Gravity (and usually momentum) always win, and gravity wins downward and momentum knows only one direction with static structures.
 
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