who was the worst president ever?

#52
#52
Besides Obama?

It's hard to even think about any others. He seems to outshine them all.

Jimmy Carter? Woodrow Wilson?
 
#54
#54
Pepe_Silvia said:
I'm still not quite sure what to make of Lincoln.

On one hand, he guided the nation through its most trying time, and Reconstruction probably would have gone smoother and been more effective if he hadn't been assassinated. On the other hand, he orchestrated the forced subjugation of American states, leading to the death of 620,000 Americans. And then there's the whole suspension of habeas corpus thing.

It's a complicated subject. I can see no situation where the Southern states would have voluntarily re-entered the Union.
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Have you read The Real Lincoln by DiLorenzo? I couldn't put it down. It's like finding out Santa isn't real. Lincoln was a control freak. He issued an arrest warrant for Supreme Court Justice Roger Taney because he simply publicly questioned Lincoln's unconstitutional suspension of habeus corpus. Dude was drunk with power.
 
#56
#56
milohimself said:
Think we'd still have the Confederacy without Lincoln as president?
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I highly doubt it but admit nobody knows. I know Tennessee (and Virginia, North Carolina, and Arkansas) seceded specifically because of Lincoln's horrible diplomacy. He ordered them to raise militias to attack the seceding states.
 
#57
#57
Also, I don't know that having 2 countries instead of 1 would be a bad thing considering the course our union is taking. Slavery could have never survived in the Confederacy because secession nullified the Fugitive Slave Act.
 
#58
#58
milohimself said:
Think we'd still have the Confederacy without Lincoln as president?
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No.

If Lincoln had never been elected, the Southern states probably wouldn't have seceded. That's not to say they wouldn't have seceded at some point down the road, perhaps when another fervent abolitionist was elected president. I think slavery would have died out before the end of the 19th Century, in any case.
 
#59
#59
nbakerld said:
Have you read The Real Lincoln by DiLorenzo? I couldn't put it down. It's like finding out Santa isn't real. Lincoln was a control freak. He issued an arrest warrant for Supreme Court Justice Roger Taney because he simply publicly questioned Lincoln's unconstitutional suspension of habeus corpus. Dude was drunk with power.
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I actually have had that book for years but have yet to read it. I'll definitely read it at some point in the future.
 
#60
#60
Pepe_Silvia said:
No.

If Lincoln had never been elected, the Southern states probably wouldn't have seceded. That's not to say they wouldn't have seceded at some point down the road, perhaps when another fervent abolitionist was elected president. I think slavery would have died out before the end of the 19th Century, in any case.
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That's the thing is he wasn't even really an abolitionist. He didn't have a history of caring about the issue. As a lawyer he had represented a slave-owner trying get his fugitive slave back. He pretended to care about the issue because Republicans cared. He was a Whig without a party.
 
#66
#66
I think Jefferson Davis is one of the most mistreated people in American history. He was imprisoned for like 3 years after the war in a dungeon that would make Edmund Dantes cringe. Davis was not charged with anything, all the while pleading to be charged with treason because he was confident he would beat the charge and be released. He ended up going slightly insane. After only a few years of solitary confinement he was released.

Also his adopted son (who was black) was kidnapped by Union soldiers. Taken from his wife's arms. They never heard of their child again, despite their efforts to petition the Union.
 
#67
#67
nbakerld said:
Also, I don't know that having 2 countries instead of 1 would be a bad thing considering the course our union is taking. Slavery could have never survived in the Confederacy because secession nullified the Fugitive Slave Act.
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dunno, but some consideration regarding what effects 2 separate, likely still on ill-terms countries might had relative to the outcomes of the two world wars might also seriously have to be given (if we're talking about this reaching the present-day)
 
#68
#68
TrueOrange said:
dunno, but some consideration regarding what effects 2 separate, likely still on ill-terms countries might had relative to the outcomes of the two world wars might also seriously have to be given (if we're talking about this reaching the present-day)
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The second world war never happens if we stay out of the first.
 
#71
#71
TrueOrange said:
dunno, but some consideration regarding what effects 2 separate, likely still on ill-terms countries might had relative to the outcomes of the two world wars might also seriously have to be given (if we're talking about this reaching the present-day)
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If they simply trade with each other, they'd never go to war. So it's up that question. Would they trade?
 
#73
#73
Some of y'all are so far out in Wackoland, I can't even believe what my eyeballs have seen in this thread. It's like you just say the most off-the-wall, bizarre thing you can think and back it up with one, maybe two examples, and think that solidifies your assertion as fact. The Clinton/Lincoln/FDR folks should be typing dissertations itt, because nothing that happened in reality could ever make any sane person think any of those three the worst POTUS of all time, except a borderline, gsvol-like agenda.

The fact that some of you claim to be in academia makes me understand why our country is falling behind in education.
 
#74
#74
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
Some of y'all are so far out in Wackoland, I can't even believe what my eyeballs have seen in this thread. It's like you just say the most off-the-wall, bizarre thing you can think and back it up with one, maybe two examples, and think that solidifies your assertion as fact. The Clinton/Lincoln/FDR folks should be typing dissertations itt, because nothing that happened in reality could ever make any sane person think any of those three the worst POTUS of all time, except a borderline, gsvol-like agenda.

The fact that some of you claim to be in academia makes me understand why our country is falling behind in education.
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Hard trolling right here.
 
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