Who will have a better 2008, Dale Jr. or Kyle Busch?

#26
#26
doozer said:
Could you say Dale Jr. is a rich man's Kyle Petty?
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Doozer I really think he is better than that, maybe somewhere between Sterling Marlin and Dale Jarrett?
Looks like Kyle Petty is following Richards' example - staying too long. I think he is a great person, just not a great driver.
 
#27
#27
I would think Jr will but honestly he's never impressed me that much. I'm a Hendricks fan, so we'll see what he does... no more excuses. All he had done so far is mainly win the restrictor plate races.
 
#28
#28
volsforever27 said:
I would think Jr will but honestly he's never impressed me that much. I'm a Hendricks fan, so we'll see what he does... no more excuses. All he had done so far is mainly win the restrictor plate races.
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17 wins. 7 have come on restrictor plate tracks. Not real sure if that constitutes the use of the word "mainly". He has won 6 races on tracks a mile or less. Seems pretty rounded to me.
 
#29
#29
doozer said:
Loozer? Weak. It's not my fault he's overrated.
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It's not really his either.

I have never pulled for Earnhardt (Sr. or Jr.), but it sucks to be Little E. He's going to constantly be "overrated" in some people's eyes because he'll never be as good as Dale Sr. Then add to the fact that people don't like him because of the bandwagon fans that do like him and well people love to debate his career wins and lack of championships.

And then add to it that he's just not an all-time great driver and there is the arguement.
 
#30
#30
No arguement from me on any points there. It's the fans who fail to see that (i.e. V-I-B-O-C) that I have to bring back to reality.
 
#31
#31
doozer said:
No arguement from me on any points there. It's the fans who fail to see that (i.e. V-I-B-O-C) that I have to bring back to reality.
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Some Jr fans are incapable of seeing reality, he can do no wrong, and anything they think is negative about him has to be incorrect if not a conspiracy against him.

I agree with Justin 100%, he is unfairly judged both ways. I've heard him say he wishes he could just drive a race car without all the pressure of being Earnhardts' kid.
 
#32
#32
I think his desire to win far outweighs anything else on his mind. Got to give him that.I guess his popularity comes more from his personality,sentimental reasons,and last name(although nobody cares about Kerry Earnhardt,haha)than his driving.Eh,I don't know.I will reserve any judgement for a couple of more seasons concerning his place in history as a driver.
 
#33
#33
In my mind the jury is still out too. If he excells with Hendrick, he will validate his status, though his detactors will say it was the team/car. Look how many previous drivers have had mediocre results in the "other two equal" HMS cars.
 
#34
#34
Good point.Similar to Jimmie Johnson criticism now.
OK,new Sprint Cup rules from my lunatic mind.
All drivers are employed by Nascar,not the teams
The rest of the teams stay in tact.(Pit crews,Engineering,R&D,Engine shop,Fabrication,etc)
The drivers rotate cars every week so they will drive in 26 different cars up to the chase.
As it is now,the top 12 drivers make the chase.
The top 12 car teams also make the chase
(May have to have 24 races and 12 chase races,or just
add 2 races to the chase for 38 total races)
The 12 chase drivers rotate for one race each in the top 12 team cars.
The true best driver wins the Sprint Cup
(Guess we need another trophy for the best team too)
The one other catch is sponsorship.A sponsor wants to
have just one driver representing them,so each sponsor goes along with the driver to the different car each week to accomodate this.The sponsorship money would all go to Nascar and then be divided up among the teams equally,so each is on a level playing field.
This will never happen,but what do you think?
 
#35
#35
McLovin said:
Good point.Similar to Jimmie Johnson criticism now.
OK,new Sprint Cup rules from my lunatic mind.
All drivers are employed by Nascar,not the teams
The rest of the teams stay in tact.
The drivers rotate cars every week so they will drive a 26 different cars up to the chase.
As it is now,the top 12 drivers make the chase.
The top 12 teams also make the chase
(May have to have 24 races and 12 chase races,or just
add 2 races to the chase for 38 total races)
The the 12 chase drivers rotate for one race each in the top 12 team cars.
The true best driver wins the Sprint Cup
The one other catch is sponsorship.A sponsor wants to
have just one driver represnting them,so,like the driver, each sponsor would have a different number car each week to accomodate this.Sponsorship money would be divided up among the teams equally,so each is on a level playing field.
This will never happen,but what do you think?
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Communism.
 
#38
#38
oh,I know. Just something in principle to discuss
with all the "who's the better driver" debates we have.
 
#39
#39
I think with the current car and the restrictions that are on it, the cars are not going to be that much different, at least for the top teams. So the difference in performance will skew more toward the driver, thereby acheiving somewhat of your idea. But to switch drivers among teams would be like having Brady and Manning switch for the SB.

My "idea that will never happen" would be to go to cars that are based on the production models, you know we could call it Stock Car Auto Racing.
 
#41
#41
rbroyles said:
I think with the current car and the restrictions that are on it, the cars are not going to be that much different, at least for the top teams. So the difference in performance will skew more toward the driver, thereby acheiving somewhat of your idea. But to switch drivers among teams would be like having Brady and Manning switch for the SB.

My "idea that will never happen" would be to go to cars that are based on the production models, you know we could call it Stock Car Auto Racing.
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When that stopped, that's when I quit following it closely. I rarely watch races anymore.
 
#43
#43
justingroves said:
It's not really his either.

I have never pulled for Earnhardt (Sr. or Jr.), but it sucks to be Little E. He's going to constantly be "overrated" in some people's eyes because he'll never be as good as Dale Sr. Then add to the fact that people don't like him because of the bandwagon fans that do like him and well people love to debate his career wins and lack of championships.

And then add to it that he's just not an all-time great driver and there is the arguement.
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doozer said:
No arguement from me on any points there. It's the fans who fail to see that (i.e. V-I-B-O-C) that I have to bring back to reality.
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I certainly am a Jr. fan. The main reason is I was a fan of his fathers. A bandwagon fan, I am not. Do I think Jr. is "overrated"? Yes I do. Not in my eyes though. I see him as a better than average driver with a huge fan base. IMO he will never attain a level anywhere near his fathers. I do think he gets unfairly judged at times because of his last name. I also think he gets a "pass" so to speak at times because of his name. Doozer, I do not need to be brought back to reality as I feel I have a firm grasp on it. Three kids will certainly help out in that dept. Your statement that Kyle Busch is a better driver simply shows me that your dislike for Jr. clouds your judgement like you claim us Jr. fans judgement is clouded. Jr. has won more races, and has a better avg. finish. Until one has a championship, or something else more definitive happens in either one of their careers, I cant see drawing a line in the sand on this issue. You certainly are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to mine and I will defend it.
 
#45
#45
doozer said:
i think he's talking about racing further back than you and i.
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I know he is.

But even in the late 80's early 90's the emblem on the front of the car meant something. Now they race shoeboxes with watered down motors.

I just don't like it as much.
 
#46
#46
I have never said I have hate for him. Just that he's not that good and fans that think otherwise are delusional.
 
#47
#47
I believe Kyle will have a better year, JR. dosen't seem understand the new car yet. He'll figure it out but not soon enough to beat Kyle this year.:)
 
#48
#48
jhen713 said:
I believe Kyle will have a better year, JR. dosen't seem understand the new car yet. He'll figure it out but not soon enough to beat Kyle this year.:)
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I'm not sure that wasn't more of DEI not getting a grip on the COT. One thing for sure, no one had a better start with it than HMS which just repeats the story line of it's time to put up or shut up for Jr.
 
#49
#49
doozer said:
Could you say Dale Jr. is a rich man's Kyle Petty?
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I've actually thought that for a couple of years now. I think more and more people will start to realize that as the year goes on, with the 24 and 48 dominating again, while Jr is struggling to stay in contention for the chase. I think the point that many people miss is that most of his early success can be attributed to having Tony Eury as his crew chief. Jr hasen't been the same since he lost Eury after the 04 season. One thing is certain. If Jr can't contend for the cup with Hendrick, he won't do it anywhere.
 
#50
#50
doozer said:
i think he's talking about racing further back than you and i.
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Well the thought is based on that, but with all the improvements in safety included. Mainly what I would like to see is taking the chassis of the COT, and using stock body panels which would require mods on the chassis to make the panels fit. Then you would have much stronger brand ID for the fans, something that has been steadily going away. In the 60-70s, you had as much fan interest in which car won as which driver. I have seen fights break out because a Ford passed a Chevy or any other combo of brands doing this. Todays cars are not even accurate facsimilies of the production car. How many V-6 powered front wheel drive, four door sedans are on the track? I think this is one of the prime reasons fan interest is dropping, particularly among the older long time fans; The people who put NASCAR on the map.

Todays cars are too similar, drivers too bland (Stewart, R. Gordon, Montoya and Harvick excepted), and races too contrived (inconsistent cautions & red flags). The level of competition is becoming top heavy with fewer total winners, although I admit it is better than the 60-80s. Not as good as from 1990 to around 2005.
 
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