Why are baseball sportsmanship rules so different than other sports?

[SGidds]

I don’t understand why baseball players are held to a much higher standard than players in other sports, particularly football and basketball. If a player cussed at a referee in football, he might get called for an 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty, but he wouldn’t get tossed from the game unless he got an second unsportsmanlike penalty.

Likewise, in basketball the player would get a technical foul, which would give the other team two free throws, but he wouldn’t be disqualified from the game unless it was his fifth total foul in that game or his second technical foul.

Basically, in those sports the first offense leads to a penalty affecting that game, and the second offense leads to ejection from the game. In college baseball, the first offense leads to ejection from the current game and a suspension for the next game. Why are the penalties so different?

Is it because the umpires are involved in every single play and the home plate umpire in particular has such a large role in the game? Is it because baseball by nature is a game with a lot of downtime that allows for more chatter? Is it the fact that both dugouts are well within earshot of the home plate umpire and it could affect the umpire’e judgment? Or have umpires just been trained to have thinner skin?

I’m imagining a typical Nick Saban rant on a side judge and wondering how long he would last if he were a baseball coach. It seems like he’d be getting tossed almost every game. A football side judge has apparently been trained to ignore the anger and cussing, within limits of course. In baseball, that doesn’t fly.

A penalty more comparable to other sports might be to call the batter out for a first unsportsmanlike offense (or if the batter was already out, to declare the next batter out). If a member of the defensive team was unsportsmanlike, then the batter could be awarded first base. In either case any subsequent incident would mean ejection, but only from the current game.

I‘m not justifying what Drew Gilbert did. He knows the rules (or he should), so it’s on him to stay within them. I just think the rules are Draconian. Other sports give players and coaches more leeway to let out some anger in the heat of the moment than baseball does. It just seems a little over-the-top for a player to get a suspension for getting upset and cussing at an umpire. Ejection, sure. Suspension, no.

 

[VOLfrombama]

It’s because baseball umpires were bullied as children and were terrible at the sport itself so now they’re there to exact their vengeance.

 

[strkr]

I don’t understand why baseball players are held to a much higher standard than players in other sports, particularly football and basketball. If a player cussed at a referee in football, he might get called for an 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty, but he wouldn’t get tossed from the game unless he got an second unsportsmanlike penalty.

Likewise, in basketball the player would get a technical foul, which would give the other team two free throws, but he wouldn’t be disqualified from the game unless it was his fifth total foul in that game or his second technical foul.

Basically, in those sports the first offense leads to a penalty affecting that game, and the second offense leads to ejection from the game. In college baseball, the first offense leads to ejection from the current game and a suspension for the next game. Why are the penalties so different?

Is it because the umpires are involved in every single play and the home plate umpire in particular has such a large role in the game? Is it because baseball by nature is a game with a lot of downtime that allows for more chatter? Is it the fact that both dugouts are well within earshot of the home plate umpire and it could affect the umpire’e judgment? Or have umpires just been trained to have thinner skin?

I’m imagining a typical Nick Saban rant on a side judge and wondering how long he would last if he were a baseball coach. It seems like he’d be getting tossed almost every game. A football side judge has apparently been trained to ignore the anger and cussing, within limits of course. In baseball, that doesn’t fly.

A penalty more comparable to other sports might be to call the batter out for a first unsportsmanlike offense (or if the batter was already out, to declare the next batter out). If a member of the defensive team was unsportsmanlike, then the batter could be awarded first base. In either case any subsequent incident would mean ejection, but only from the current game.

I‘m not justifying what Drew Gilbert did. He knows the rules (or he should), so it’s on him to stay within them. I just think the rules are Draconian. Other sports give players and coaches more leeway to let out some anger in the heat of the moment than baseball does. It just seems a little over-the-top for a player to get a suspension for getting upset and cussing at an umpire. Ejection, sure. Suspension, no.

Tough call to have gilbert tossed like that but most umpires are not going to tolerate the f word or bullshift being said directly to them. The other umpire that tossed Anderson was running to that first base line last night to toss him. Did Anderson cross the line last night by going on the field past Tony? I don't know but these guys know what happened previously with the last umpire situation involving Anderson and Tony. I am sure they are aware how some of our guys flip bats and shoot birds etc. It will catch up to you when you do these things and guess what it all came tumbling down in one of our biggest games of the year to this point. You have to keep yourself in check and emotions in check in the right way because you are the Number one team in the land and everyone is coming for you. Sad thing is the ump has the power-

 

[VolPack22]

For a sport that used to encourage bench clearing brawls, it is pretty crazy how they handle situations like last night. Baseball is a little more complex than the other sports because there is not a foul or penalty system. Baseball umpires are the most protected and have by far the most authority out of all the major sports. Basketball has a last 2 minutes report released to the public. The NFL makes every play reviewable in the last 2 minutes in case a ref misses a call. Baseball is just different unfortunately. It was the last major sport to adopt replay because the umpire association fought tooth and nail against it. I agree that they could award the other team an out in situations like this. That would be a true warning instead of throwing someone out all of the sudden.

 

[EasternVol]

I don’t understand why baseball players are held to a much higher standard than players in other sports, particularly football and basketball. If a player cussed at a referee in football, he might get called for an 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty, but he wouldn’t get tossed from the game unless he got an second unsportsmanlike penalty.

Likewise, in basketball the player would get a technical foul, which would give the other team two free throws, but he wouldn’t be disqualified from the game unless it was his fifth total foul in that game or his second technical foul.

Basically, in those sports the first offense leads to a penalty affecting that game, and the second offense leads to ejection from the game. In college baseball, the first offense leads to ejection from the current game and a suspension for the next game. Why are the penalties so different?

Is it because the umpires are involved in every single play and the home plate umpire in particular has such a large role in the game? Is it because baseball by nature is a game with a lot of downtime that allows for more chatter? Is it the fact that both dugouts are well within earshot of the home plate umpire and it could affect the umpire’e judgment? Or have umpires just been trained to have thinner skin?

I’m imagining a typical Nick Saban rant on a side judge and wondering how long he would last if he were a baseball coach. It seems like he’d be getting tossed almost every game. A football side judge has apparently been trained to ignore the anger and cussing, within limits of course. In baseball, that doesn’t fly.

A penalty more comparable to other sports might be to call the batter out for a first unsportsmanlike offense (or if the batter was already out, to declare the next batter out). If a member of the defensive team was unsportsmanlike, then the batter could be awarded first base. In either case any subsequent incident would mean ejection, but only from the current game.

I‘m not justifying what Drew Gilbert did. He knows the rules (or he should), so it’s on him to stay within them. I just think the rules are Draconian. Other sports give players and coaches more leeway to let out some anger in the heat of the moment than baseball does. It just seems a little over-the-top for a player to get a suspension for getting upset and cussing at an umpire. Ejection, sure. Suspension, no.

Is it confirmed what exactly Gilbert said to the ump? That would be necessary to really compare with the sports mentioned.
But since as you noted baseball has no technical foul like basketball or 15 yarder like football, about all an ump has to work with is ejection. Maybe one day the rules will be adjusted to give or take an out for a first offense, but I doubt it will come to pass. Do you see any other options?

 

[VolPack22]

Is it confirmed what exactly Gilbert said to the ump? That would be necessary to really compare with the sports mentioned.
But since as you noted baseball has no technical foul like basketball or 15 yarder like football, about all an ump has to work with is ejection. Maybe one day the rules will be adjusted to give or take an out for a first offense, but I doubt it will come to pass. Do you see any other options?

He could’ve called Tony out there like an adult and told them one more time and he’s gone. Instead the umpire got in his feelings.

 

[YNWAvols]

So many sports where the f word is directed at refs without repercussions.

 

[GiveHim6InSC]

I see both sides. On the one hand, these players have played long enough to know what the line is, and he used poor judgement. He screwed up.
On the other hand, the ump could’ve handled it differently, given the circumstances surrounding the game. I do not think umpires are held to a sufficient standard, esp when you have a center field camera angle that shows where a pitch is. Plays in the field are different, as angles and positions may come into play with regards to what an ump calls. Behind the plate, he is stationary and it’s pretty cut and dried.
I think they have too much control over a game as it is and should, at the least, be held accountable for strike zone.
We also don’t know what was said and what was said leading up to the ejection.
But Gilbert messed up and he cost his team. That we know.

 

[Big Orange Rob]

Players and coaches know the rules, whether they are fair or not. Both messed up and now it will hurt the team. Nobody but themselves to blame. This team had pushed the limits on sportsmanship one too many times and they finally got burned. There is a million ways to get fired up and show emotion without flipping people off and throwing f bombs. Low class.

 

[JohnTN]

This is a really good baseball team but I wish it would represent the university with more class. I don't think having an "attitude" wins games.

 

[VolPack22]

Players and coaches know the rules, whether they are fair or not. Both messed up and now it will hurt the team. Nobody but themselves to blame. This team had pushed the limits on sportsmanship one too many times and they finally got burned. There is a million ways to get fired up and show emotion without flipping people off and throwing f bombs. Low class.

The ump should be held accountable for an atrocious strike zone. If you call the game correctly then Gilbert isn’t saying anything to the ump. His poor umpiring directly lead to him being ejected.

 

[VolPack22]

This is a really good baseball team but I wish it would represent the university with more class. I don't think having an "attitude" wins games.

Having this attitude has won us 56 games, the most in program history. They are fine.

 

[EZE]

He could’ve called Tony out there like an adult and told them one more time and he’s gone. Instead the umpire got in his feelings.

I disagree. First of all, it was a terrible called strike…let’s get that out of the way. And Gilbert had a right to chirp about it.

But what he did went way over the line. His outburst showed up the umpire, and his ejection would have been predictable at nearly any baseball game at any level.

Which brings me to my real point. This team feeds on emotion, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But, there is a fine line where emotion turns from being helpful to being destructive. This team has trended into danger territory toward the end of this season (the bird-flipping last weekend, the outburst last night, etc.). CTV still is a young coach, and one of his learning areas needs to be reining these guys in when they start pushing that line.

 

[VolPack22]

I disagree. First of all, it was a terrible called strike…let’s get that out of the way. And Gilbert had a right to chirp about it.

But what he did went way over the line. His outburst showed up the umpire, and his ejection would have been predictable at nearly any baseball game at any level.

Which brings me to my real point. This team feeds on emotion, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But, there is a fine line where emotion turns from being helpful to being destructive. This team has trended into danger territory toward the end of this season (the bird-flipping last weekend, the outburst last night, etc.). CTV still is a young coach, and one of his learning areas needs to be reining these guys in when they start pushing that line.

You don’t just throw guys out in an NCAAT game without at least warning the head coach to get his player in line. One could also say that the ejections lit a fire under our guys. It was 8-2 at the time of the ejections and we came all the way back to 8-6. This is what this team is. They play with fire and it’s gotten them to 56 wins. Tony is doing perfectly fine and doesn’t need to change a thing.

 

[The Vin Man]

He could’ve called Tony out there like an adult and told them one more time and he’s gone. Instead the umpire got in his feelings.

Agree. The other big problem I have is the automatic 2 game suspension. I understand if there was a physical altercation, but not for arguing a call and/or saying a few choice words. That rule is beyond ridiculous.

 

[YNWAvols]

The other thing is imagine spending your livelihood crafting your trade only to be controlled and dictated by fat, out of shape guys who never got picked for dodgeball in elementary school.

 

[Capt Straight]

I deserved to be tossed also after that umpire went postal on Gilbert and Anderson!

 

[cardvolfan]

It appeared to be a tough call against Gilbert, plus he was already miffed at the HBP on the previous at-bat. The umpires have authority, whether we like it or not, to hand out discipline as they see fit. Gilbert walks a fine line as Tony V himself has acknowledged, and has said he has a hard time reigning Drew in. Bottom line is that last night’s action affects the whole team negatively.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Is it confirmed what exactly Gilbert said to the ump? That would be necessary to really compare with the sports mentioned.
But since as you noted baseball has no technical foul like basketball or 15 yarder like football, about all an ump has to work with is ejection. Maybe one day the rules will be adjusted to give or take an out for a first offense, but I doubt it will come to pass. Do you see any other options?

He said, “That was a terrible F*** call” and when the ump told him to calm down, he said “F** you” followed by a string of other things about not calming down. He had been escalating over a few innings, and was warned between innings to tone it down or get tossed.

 

[sanefan]

My two cents and mine only. Why do the other sports allow a player to say something like that twice before they get thrown out?

In all cases it is not only subjective but different tolerances for different officials.

It shows a lack of intelligent in the moment to resort to discussion of a disagreement getting to that level, ever.

I'm not concerned about whether the words were actually said. That's a different subject. Let's debate when a person has a beef and discusses it like what used to be an adult and they still get thrown out. Until then, why don't coaches help players learn to use adult language to make your point.

 

[VolPack22]

It appeared to be a tough call against Gilbert, plus he was already miffed at the HBP on the previous at-bat. The umpires have authority, whether we like it or not, to hand out discipline as they see fit. Gilbert walks a fine line as Tony V himself has acknowledged, and has said he has a hard time reigning Drew in. Bottom line is that last night’s action affects the whole team negatively.

It actually impacted the team positively. We were down 8-2 at the time of the ejection and came all the way back to 8-6 with an opportunity to tie or win the game.

 

[orangello]

If Drew had looked away from the ump and aimed his tirade into space or into the ground he probably would have gotten a warning, or two. But, he stared down the umpire and fired away.

 

[ric1958]

I disagree. First of all, it was a terrible called strike…let’s get that out of the way. And Gilbert had a right to chirp about it.

But what he did went way over the line. His outburst showed up the umpire, and his ejection would have been predictable at nearly any baseball game at any level.

Which brings me to my real point. This team feeds on emotion, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But, there is a fine line where emotion turns from being helpful to being destructive. This team has trended into danger territory toward the end of this season (the bird-flipping last weekend, the outburst last night, etc.). CTV still is a young coach, and one of his learning areas needs to be reining these guys in when they start pushing that line.

I totally agree with this post.

 

[cardvolfan]

It actually impacted the team positively. We were down 8-2 at the time of the ejection and came all the way back to 8-6 with an opportunity to tie or win the game.

So, it’s a good thing that Gilbert is out today? They lost last night and none of us know what the outcome might have been if Drew gets two more AB’s.

 

[VAVol85]

In baseball, about half of the plays involve a judgment call by the home plate ump…100 or more plays per game. The game simply could not be played with guys “working” the ref like in basketball.

Gilbert messed up. Hopefully, he gets a chance to redeem himself in game 3.