Why are baseball sportsmanship rules so different than other sports?

[VolPack22]

So, it’s a good thing that Gilbert is out today? They lost last night and none of us know what the outcome might have been if Drew gets two more AB’s.

None of us know how the game might have gone if he had just stayed idle and not called out a high school level umpire. Jared Dickey or Christian Moore will more than likely be playing. They will step up. I have faith in them.

 

[sechamp2012]

It’s because baseball umpires were bullied as children and were terrible at the sport itself so now they’re there to exact their vengeance.

LOL, there is some truth in this. Every Umpire/Ref I know that I grew up knowing fits into these categories

 

[VOLfrombama]

“According to a statement provided by umpire crew chief Billy Van Raaphorst to NCAA Baseball Knoxville Super Regional pool reporter Mike Wilson of the Knoxville News Sentinel, Gilbert argued pitches from center field earlier in the game. He also had been warned to direct his comments away from the umpires.”

-247

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

I don’t understand why baseball players are held to a much higher standard than players in other sports, particularly football and basketball. If a player cussed at a referee in football, he might get called for an 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty, but he wouldn’t get tossed from the game unless he got an second unsportsmanlike penalty.

Likewise, in basketball the player would get a technical foul, which would give the other team two free throws, but he wouldn’t be disqualified from the game unless it was his fifth total foul in that game or his second technical foul.

Basically, in those sports the first offense leads to a penalty affecting that game, and the second offense leads to ejection from the game. In college baseball, the first offense leads to ejection from the current game and a suspension for the next game. Why are the penalties so different?

Is it because the umpires are involved in every single play and the home plate umpire in particular has such a large role in the game? Is it because baseball by nature is a game with a lot of downtime that allows for more chatter? Is it the fact that both dugouts are well within earshot of the home plate umpire and it could affect the umpire’e judgment? Or have umpires just been trained to have thinner skin?

I’m imagining a typical Nick Saban rant on a side judge and wondering how long he would last if he were a baseball coach. It seems like he’d be getting tossed almost every game. A football side judge has apparently been trained to ignore the anger and cussing, within limits of course. In baseball, that doesn’t fly.

A penalty more comparable to other sports might be to call the batter out for a first unsportsmanlike offense (or if the batter was already out, to declare the next batter out). If a member of the defensive team was unsportsmanlike, then the batter could be awarded first base. In either case any subsequent incident would mean ejection, but only from the current game.

I‘m not justifying what Drew Gilbert did. He knows the rules (or he should), so it’s on him to stay within them. I just think the rules are Draconian. Other sports give players and coaches more leeway to let out some anger in the heat of the moment than baseball does. It just seems a little over-the-top for a player to get a suspension for getting upset and cussing at an umpire. Ejection, sure. Suspension, no.

Good question, especially about the coaches. But the rule is that anyone other than the head coach will get tossed the moment he comes onto the field. I’d much rather learn that lesson against some random team in April rather than with the season on the line.

 

[wtmvol]

“According to a statement provided by umpire crew chief Billy Van Raaphorst to NCAA Baseball Knoxville Super Regional pool reporter Mike Wilson of the Knoxville News Sentinel, Gilbert argued pitches from center field earlier in the game. He also had been warned to direct his comments away from the umpires.”

-247

that doesn’t sound like our Drew…

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

“According to a statement provided by umpire crew chief Billy Van Raaphorst to NCAA Baseball Knoxville Super Regional pool reporter Mike Wilson of the Knoxville News Sentinel, Gilbert argued pitches from center field earlier in the game. He also had been warned to direct his comments away from the umpires.”

-247

Even Russell disagreed with his strikeout. But as a catcher, he knows you say it with your head down or walking away. Gilbert turned to look at the umpire so everyone in the stadium and tv knew.

But I agree that baseball acts like it’s above the fray. That it’s more gentlemanly or something.

 

[TnVol!]

Gilbert was wrong. He got tossed because of what he did. The plate umpire last night was terrible but a player has to manage himself in those situations.

 

[VOLfrombama]

Even Russell disagreed with his strikeout. But as a catcher, he knows you say it with your head down or walking away. Gilbert turned to look at the umpire so everyone in the stadium and tv knew.

But I agree that baseball acts like it’s above the fray. That it’s more gentlemanly or something.

Yeah, Drew looked him dead and in the eyes and used two f-bombs to describe how bad of a job he was doing. Not very becoming of the star player.

 

[VolPack22]

“According to a statement provided by umpire crew chief Billy Van Raaphorst to NCAA Baseball Knoxville Super Regional pool reporter Mike Wilson of the Knoxville News Sentinel, Gilbert argued pitches from center field earlier in the game. He also had been warned to direct his comments away from the umpires.”

-247

So the umpires are listening to a guy that’s 300+ feet away from home plate? Some pretty thin skin right there.

 

[chad954ut]

MLB umps have always wanted to be a "part of the game". College BB umps are no different.

 

[VOLfrombama]

So the umpires are listening to a guy that’s 300+ feet away from home plate? Some pretty thin skin right there.

I was thinking the exact opposite tbh. If they can hear Drew from 300+ feet away, then how loud is he arguing?

 

[VolPack22]

I was thinking the exact opposite tbh. If they can hear Drew from 300+ feet away, then how loud is he arguing?

They have rabbit ears. Always listening for the slightest thing to insert themselves into the game.

 

[cncchris33]

Is it confirmed what exactly Gilbert said to the ump? That would be necessary to really compare with the sports mentioned.
But since as you noted baseball has no technical foul like basketball or 15 yarder like football, about all an ump has to work with is ejection. Maybe one day the rules will be adjusted to give or take an out for a first offense, but I doubt it will come to pass. Do you see any other options?

Even an amateur lip reader can determine the gist of what Gilbert said, and he said it multiple times.

There's a chance he gets by with questioning the call by saying exactly what he did without the expletives directed at the ump (who was awful, btw).

"Come on, now! That ball was low AND inside! Bad call, bad call! That communicates the exact same message as..."What the f***?!?! That's f****** b*******! That's f****** terrible!", and it likely gets you a longer leash with an ump who claimed postgame to have already warned Gilbert innings before about barking from centerfield as the primary justification for tossing him when he did.

Simply put, your emotional leader has to be a leader with his emotions, and Drew Gilbert put his team's entire season in jeopardy with his actions. And, again, he wasn't wrong about the strike zone. Objectively, 85% of umpires will tell you that pitch was either low, inside, or both, and it was called inconsistently, all night. But DG's reaction effectively resulted in a 1.5 gm suspension, and as a result, his pitching coach received a 3.5 gm suspension. Facing elimination, today, his team is left to pick up the slack, and if they manage to win, they must do it all again, tomorrow without the benefit of a pitching coach. The cards are heavily stacked against them.

 

[cncchris33]

The real issue should be why is a player suspended for another game following an ejection for arguing with an umpire? Basketball players aren't suspended for being ejected following two technical fouls. Football players aren't suspended for being ejected following to unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.

That is the part of this I take the most issue with. You aren't necessarily afforded any sort of official warning (Gilbert, apparently was innings earlier, in this case), and then being tossed automatically results in an immediate one-game suspension. That seems excessive.

 

[savannahfan]

Having this attitude has won us 56 games, the most in program history. They are fine.

No!! Having this attitude has not had a thing to do with them winning 56 games. They have won them because they are a very good bunch of ballplayers. They have won 56 games in spite of their bad attitude and poor sportsmanship.

 

[savannahfan]

It actually impacted the team positively. We were down 8-2 at the time of the ejection and came all the way back to 8-6 with an opportunity to tie or win the game.

Again I say it had no effect of a positive nature. They came back because ND pitching fell off and we started playing somewhat like we can when not uptight (like in choking).

 

[VolPack22]

Again I say it had no effect of a positive nature. They came back because ND pitching fell off and we started playing somewhat like we can when not uptight (like in choking).

Two sides to every coin.

 

[VolPack22]

No!! Having this attitude has not had a thing to do with them winning 56 games. They have won them because they are a very good bunch of ballplayers. They have won 56 games in spite of their bad attitude and poor sportsmanship.

Oh good lord

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

Yeah, Drew looked him dead and in the eyes and used two f-bombs to describe how bad of a job he was doing. Not very becoming of the star player.

It was a ball. And he was totally screwed by the HBP. But you gotta rise above it.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Because baseball is often viewed as a gentleman's game

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

Again I say it had no effect of a positive nature. They came back because ND pitching fell off and we started playing somewhat like we can when not uptight (like in choking).

He bats almost .500 with RISP. We didn’t get very clutch hits. But the umpiring is a distraction when Gilbert is complaining about balls and strikes when he’s in the outfield. Enough.

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

Because baseball is often viewed as a gentleman's game

Ty Cobb, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens, and Bob Gibbons notwithstanding.

 

[VolPack22]

Because baseball is often viewed as a gentleman's game

It’s not really though. Why are there bench clearing brawls if it’s so gentleman-like? Golf and tennis are gentlemen sports. I’ve never viewed baseball in the same light. It’s a thinking man’s game, sure, but gentleman’s game it is not.

 

[Fullfillmer]

I disagree. First of all, it was a terrible called strike…let’s get that out of the way. And Gilbert had a right to chirp about it.

But what he did went way over the line. His outburst showed up the umpire, and his ejection would have been predictable at nearly any baseball game at any level.

Which brings me to my real point. This team feeds on emotion, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But, there is a fine line where emotion turns from being helpful to being destructive. This team has trended into danger territory toward the end of this season (the bird-flipping last weekend, the outburst last night, etc.). CTV still is a young coach, and one of his learning areas needs to be reining these guys in when they start pushing that line.

Herein lies the problem - Drew was walking the other direction when he said whatever he said. It was a horrendous call - the pitch was both inside and low, and someone somewhere needs to let the ump know that. Next Umpires always feel or take the position - "they are trying to show me up" - my poor delicate ego can't take that. I am going to show everyone how tough I am and who is in charge and kick someone or everyone out of the game. Put a bully in that position and they claim people are trying to show them up - not "let me think through my decision making on my strike zone. "

Turns out Drew was right - we were not getting the corners when we were in the field and ND was the beneficiary of a greatly extended strike zone. Once the ejections happened - all 3 umpires appeared to have a bias against our team and coach and it showed. From checked swings to called strikes and balls. I felt it was a wildly one sided effort by the home plate umpire.

Notre Dame did a great job scouting our pitcher and practicing against his strengths, but the umpires seemed predisposed to keep Tony and Tennessee in check and not be "shown up". Unfortunately, umpires have the power to help or harm - and even major league games can swing on the whims of the ump calling balls and strikes.

 

[Hoosier]

SOME umpires enjoy the power of their position --- the look on the umpire's face after tossing Gilbert last night was almost ecstatic --- I'm surprised he didn't have to take time to go change his shorts because he definitely got off on it