Why do you think this country in trouble??

#28
#28
Lets not forget Unions...

Obama touts middle-class task force lead by Biden - Yahoo! News

"It's a new day for workers," said James Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, who attended the White House ceremony with other union leaders. "We finally have a White House that is dedicated to working with us to rebuild our middle class. Hope for the American Dream is being restored."
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#30
#30
Three, interrelated reasons, mostly having to do with the strain on the middle class.

First, we have no manufacturing base to stabilize the middle class. Our economy is increasingly monopolized by the serivce industry. We don't make anything. We can debate why that is -- broader education means people do not have to be in labor as much anymore, lower cost of production in other nations, etc. Bottom line: the country does not represent the starting point for production of goods to nearly the same degree it used to, and that leaves many more people without any economic power.

Second, the upper class is pulling away from the middle class and that is destabilizing the political framework of the country. We have always had a super-wealthy class. But 250 years ago they did not live that much better than the blacksmith. And wealthy industrialists at the turn of the 20th century did not have nearly the same magnitude of wealth that the current Wall Street and tech investors have relative to the middle class now.

This country is producing exponentially more millionaires and even billionaires than ever before, but the middle class remains firmly stuck in living paycheck to paycheck. I do not bring that up as class warfare -- it is simply a fact that a broad and stable and satisfied middle class is the key to moderate politics. But the greater the distance between the upper and middle classes in this country, the less willing the middle class is to foot the investment returns for the upper class with their own labor. (This is not to say that its hard to become upper class -- it is easier now than ever before. But it is to say that if one struggles and cannot get there, then there is an increasing resentment. The election of Obama is driven largely by the sense of the minority population that the game has been rigged for so long. Does not help that corporate execs are taking hundred million dollar bonuses at the same time that the middle class is being called upon to pay for a bailout of the exec's company).

Third, all of the economic stresses have led to a real assault on the family. Twenty years ago, the debate was whether a family of 4 or 5 could get by with the Mom staying at home. Now, the debate is whether they can get by if Mom and Dad just work one job, each. The further down the economic ladder you go, the more likely you are to see a dysfunctional or even simply nonexistent family support system. And for the kids growing up in that situation, there is an even greater likelihood that they will break away from the solid middle class foundation I speak of above, and resentment and lethargy grow with it.

Government can have only a very limited role in dealing with these issues. In a macro sense, this is really a growing pang as we shift from industry to service. But there is a very real danger of the country not being able to sustain the image we like to have of ourselves as the land of opportunity while this tranformation goes on. We'll either self-correct it, or a thousand years from now be a footnote with the great but failed empires of the past.
 
#33
#33
volinbham said:
I saw the press conf. The govt is going to strengthen unions to save the economy. :blink:
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it's funny because they say it's the unions that support the middle class even though less than 12% of workers are union members. so the 88% of non-union workers are dirt poor. this guy is defining middle class now as unions, he basically campaigning for this voters. this guy is a joke just as all the libs that ruin this country.
 
#34
#34
In response to LG:

1. I fail to see the link between manufacturing and economic power of individuals. If I make as much or more in a knowledge industry than I would have in a mfg industry why have I sacrificed power?

2. Agree in part but there is a shift in mentality also that everyone can have it all. Families of 4 or 5 can make it if they change what make it means. We're guilty as a nation of outliving our means. Sure there are folks that can't afford the basics but the definition of "basics" to some(many) is quite different than it was in my parent's generation.

3. Agree that government can't really change some of these things. In fact, the more government tries to delay some inevitable changes or protect all from "pain" the more we perpetuate some of the underlying issues.
 
#36
#36
volinbham said:
In response to LG:

1. I fail to see the link between manufacturing and economic power of individuals. If I make as much or more in a knowledge industry than I would have in a mfg industry why have I sacrificed power?

2. Agree in part but there is a shift in mentality also that everyone can have it all. Families of 4 or 5 can make it if they change what make it means. We're guilty as a nation of outliving our means. Sure there are folks that can't afford the basics but the definition of "basics" to some(many) is quite different than it was in my parent's generation.

3. Agree that government can't really change some of these things. In fact, the more government tries to delay some inevitable changes or protect all from "pain" the more we perpetuate some of the underlying issues.
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It's how inexplictly bound to the fate of the particular industry you are in that determines your long run economic power.
 
#39
#39
joevol320 said:
it's funny because they say it's the unions that support the middle class even though less than 12% of workers are union members. so the 88% of non-union workers are dirt poor. this guy is defining middle class now as unions, he basically campaigning for this voters. this guy is a joke just as all the libs that ruin this country.
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The fact that a Hoffa is in the white house praising the POTUS is such a joke
 
#42
#42
volinbham said:
In response to LG:

1. I fail to see the link between manufacturing and economic power of individuals. If I make as much or more in a knowledge industry than I would have in a mfg industry why have I sacrificed power?

2. Agree in part but there is a shift in mentality also that everyone can have it all. Families of 4 or 5 can make it if they change what make it means. We're guilty as a nation of outliving our means. Sure there are folks that can't afford the basics but the definition of "basics" to some(many) is quite different than it was in my parent's generation.

3. Agree that government can't really change some of these things. In fact, the more government tries to delay some inevitable changes or protect all from "pain" the more we perpetuate some of the underlying issues.
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As to your #1, I do not diagree with you when you say you can make more if you are in a "knowledge industry." But there are many families that have not, and cannot afford to, make that transition. If technology does not grow as fast as it has been for the last two decades, what's going to happen to all the people who go to school to learn how ot be "knowledge industry" workers?

As to your #2, the problem is that there are entire demographic groups that are convinced that they are locked out of getting to "make it." They are tired of adjusting their expectations to be satisfied with where they are. Ideally, an improving economy lifts all boats. But it would be wrong not to recognize that some folks think their boats are permanently anchored in the shallow end of the pool.

Whether they are right or wrong is not the issue. They aren't going to stay silent and as their numbers grow, so does their political power.

As to your #3, I agree with you. Hopefully, again in the macro sense, the government will have the same good sense to get out of meddling with these relationships at the same time that those at the top of private industry come to realize that if they don't broaden the scope of opportunity then they are only dooming themselves.
 
#43
#43
joevol320 said:
unions are basically legalized organized crime.
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I wouldn't go that far. I would say that the unions and organized crime will forever be linked because the unions used the muscle organized crime had to entrench and keep themselves relevant as a power.
 
#44
#44
volinbham said:
I saw the press conf. The govt is going to strengthen unions to save the economy. :blink:
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truly disturbing. maybe the stupidest thing to come out of a vice president's mouth in history. the bloom is definetly off the obama rose.
 
#45
#45
there is nothing at core wrong with this country. we've had stupid people here for 200 years. that wont change. every generation in history has thought the next generation is going to send us down the hole to hell. it hasn't happened yet.
 
#46
#46
droski said:
there is nothing at core wrong with this country. we've had stupid people here for 200 years. that wont change. every generation in history has thought the next generation is going to send us down the hole to hell. it hasn't happened yet.
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“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

-Ben Franklin
 
#47
#47
droski said:
there is nothing at core wrong with this country. we've had stupid people here for 200 years. that wont change. every generation in history has thought the next generation is going to send us down the hole to hell. it hasn't happened yet.
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That's what I meant to say...
 
#48
#48
droski said:
there is nothing at core wrong with this country. we've had stupid people here for 200 years. that wont change. every generation in history has thought the next generation is going to send us down the hole to hell. it hasn't happened yet.
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And therfore it never will?

Tell that to the last generation of Romans.
 
#49
#49
lawgator1 said:
And therfore it never will?

Tell that to the last generation of Romans.
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besides being far better educated and harder working (looked at averaged hours worked per worker) than 40 years ago. what does this generation do that is going to send us down the hole?
 
#50
#50
I honestly think the reason people think the country is in trouble is the growth, availability, positioning, and competition of media.
 
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