Why is Trump destroying NATO ?

Why is Trump destroying NATO?

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#26
#26
n_huffhines said:
NATO is an entangling alliance. We can be friends with all of Europe without swearing an oath to fight alongside Turkey.
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Also are they such feckless ******* that they can’t or won’t defend themselves if attacked? Why should Europe be so reliant on us to stop Russia?
 
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#27
#27
Let’s look at our “great” NATO powerhouses that would really be useful in a conflict:
Turkey? They would probably fight us
France? Useless
Belgium? Useless
Iceland? Useless
Canada? Useless
Italy? Useless
Netherlands? Useless
Luxembourg? Useless
Greece? Useless
Spain? Useless
Latvia?, Estonia?, Albania?, Croati?, Montenegro? Useless

UK, Germany, Norway, Poland= Useful
Kick the rest out or make them actually contribute something
 
#28
#28
DancingOutlaw said:
Also are they such feckless ******* that they can’t or won’t defend themselves if attacked? Why should Europe be so reliant on us to stop Russia?
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Considering NATO basically did nothing in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan other than a token force here or there. It is pretty much the UN without the political grandstanding
 
#29
#29
Love the poll...

Not a single normal option like European NATO members needs to pay their fair share.

I guess paying your fair share only applies to middle income and up Americans in LGs universe.
 
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#30
#30
I'm glad that there's somebody in office that's fighting for the US tax payers instead of those sponging off of us. Of course they won't like it when somebody takes away their free stuff. Just look at the Leftists' ongoing meltdown.
 
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#31
#31
landscapingvol said:
Considering NATO basically did nothing in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan other than a token force here or there. It is pretty much the UN without the political grandstanding
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NATO and the EU were partially created to protect Europe from itself. The thought being if everyone’s on the same team and resources can’t be hoarded then you can’t fight each other. Historically Europe’s greatest enemy has been itself. Places like Luxembourg and Estonia love it, they spend jack on defense and get big brother and America to subsidize it.

I think Hutchison was saying last night that the US contribution is 22%? Why are we footing one fifth of the bill? I have no idea if that includes the money we spend operating forward bases in Europe. My guess is no.

I have to say I have really enjoyed the latest screeching by the left regarding reductions in military spend. They want more troops in Europe and more shows of force around NK. You know, the stuff that made Bush II a war criminal.
 
#35
#35
NEOCON said:
Love the poll...

Not a single normal option like European NATO members needs to pay their fair share.

I guess paying your fair share only applies to middle income and up Americans in LGs universe.
Click to expand...

It's LG so what do you expect. He/she's bat sh!+ on all things not liberal.
 
#39
#39
LouderVol said:
but I thought Trump was in debt to the Russians? where did he get the money to give to the Russians to launder?

I can just not keep up with all these Trump theories.
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I never claimed he was in monetary debt to Russian agents, aside from his loyalty to them for conspiring against the Republic to rig an election.

The Trump Family Crime Syndicate is far-reaching and has been in bed with Russian oligarchs for decades. We will find out soon enough.
 
#40
#40
zeppelin128 said:
I never claimed he was in monetary debt to Russian agents, aside from his loyalty to them for conspiring against the Republic to rig an election.

The Trump Family Crime Syndicate is far-reaching and has been in bed with Russian oligarchs for decades. We will find out soon enough.
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not soon enough if the DNC has their way. it is their whole message right now.
 
#41
#41
NorthDallas40 said:
Got a list of European bases we are closing or forces we are removing from theater?

Trump's Relationship With NATO, 1 Year Into His Presidency : NPR



From reading that it sounds to me like we’re still very committed however we’d like to see our “allies” get off their collective asses and participate in their own defense? Sounds reasonable to me!
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NATO members have until 2024 to meet the 2% of GDP for defense spending. They have time. No one should expect a Belguim, Denmark, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Czech Republic or Montenegro to spend more than 2%. Only the founding members should be close to the 3.7% the U.S. spends.
 
#42
#42
carlos86 said:
NATO members have until 2024 to meet the 2% of GDP for defense spending. They have time. No one should expect a Belguim, Denmark, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Czech Republic or Montenegro to spend more than 2%. Only the founding members should be close to the 3.7% the U.S. spends.
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How the heck would YOU know..........Welcome HOME man.....good to have ya back!!!
 
#43
#43
landscapingvol said:
Considering NATO basically did nothing in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan other than a token force here or there. It is pretty much the UN without the political grandstanding
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The only soldiers that went on combat patrols with us in Afghanistan in my AO were NATO (Czech, Polish Georgian) The only All the SF mission there were Polish and American. The majority of the forces at BAF are NATO. (70-30)
 
#44
#44
zeppelin128 said:
I never claimed he was in monetary debt to Russian agents, aside from his loyalty to them for conspiring against the Republic to rig an election.

The Trump Family Crime Syndicate is far-reaching and has been in bed with Russian oligarchs for decades. We will find out soon enough.
Click to expand...

You’ve been hanging around with LG too long zep
 
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#45
#45
T-TownVol said:
How the heck would YOU know..........Welcome HOME man.....good to have ya back!!!
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As of right now 6 NATO members spend the required 2% of GDP and 10 will meet that standard before 2024. LOL and thanks its good to be back.
 
#46
#46
carlos86 said:
NATO members have until 2024 to meet the 2% of GDP for defense spending. They have time. No one should expect a Belguim, Denmark, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Czech Republic or Montenegro to spend more than 2%. Only the founding members should be close to the 3.7% the U.S. spends.
Click to expand...

This has been going on for decades I’m sure you know Carlos. The 2% gdp rule is a rather recent arbitrary measuring point I guess but it’s the one we currently have. And former admins have opined about lack of sharing the load many times.

Regardless the US isn’t pulling out of NATO because we are the ones that most want it to exist I believe.
 
#47
#47
landscapingvol said:
Let’s look at our “great” NATO powerhouses that would really be useful in a conflict:
Turkey? They would probably fight us
France? Useless
Belgium? Useless
Iceland? Useless
Canada? Useless
Italy? Useless
Netherlands? Useless
Luxembourg? Useless
Greece? Useless
Spain? Useless
Latvia?, Estonia?, Albania?, Croati?, Montenegro? Useless

UK, Germany, Norway, Poland= Useful
Kick the rest out or make them actually contribute something
Click to expand...

I'll address this...

Turkey - Eff 'em. Cold War positioning bought them into the Alliance. Post Cold War Middle East activities kept them relevant. Otherwise, tell them to eat a fat one.

France - Extremely helpful in Afghanistan. Don't buy into the "They didn't go into Iraq with us!" nonsense.

Belgium - Also has helped out in the Stan. Kindly remind you that for every battalion sent by a NATO ally, that's one battalion of US troops that didn't have to go.

Iceland - Cold War throwback. Zero bases in that nation so it's a zero sum investment for us save the few times we go there for exercises.

Canada - Dude, please. You're starting to get ignorant.

Italy - Helped in both Iraq and the Stan.

Netherlands - See Italy

Luxembourg - See Iceland

Greece - See Belgium

Spain - See Italy

Latvia - Small contingents to Iraq and the Stan

Estonia - See Latvia, also Lithuania

Albania - Small contingents to Afghanistan

Croatia - See Albania

Montenegro - Also see Albania

UK, Germany, Norway, Poland= Useful. Well, that's just nice of you to admit. Just for your information, the Norwegian contingent in Iraq was actually less than the Dutch. But they are "useful" in your eyes.

I'm up for round two of your dance around Europe.
 
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#48
#48
landscapingvol said:
Let’s look at our “great” NATO powerhouses that would really be useful in a conflict:
Turkey? They would probably fight us
France? Useless
Belgium? Useless
Iceland? Useless
Canada? Useless
Italy? Useless
Netherlands? Useless
Luxembourg? Useless
Greece? Useless
Spain? Useless
Latvia?, Estonia?, Albania?, Croati?, Montenegro? Useless

UK, Germany, Norway, Poland= Useful
Kick the rest out or make them actually contribute something
Click to expand...

One other thing, it's not always about the military support. Sometimes it's nice having friends around that send what they can even though they may not have to.

International response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia
 
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#49
#49
If HRC had won and showed the slightest disregard for NATO, you'd all be screaming that she is betraying our alliances, is ignoring the very real threat from Russia, doesn't know what she's doing, and is soft on the military.



Trump threatens to hand Europe to Putin on a silver platter and you join him in finding creative ways to express your contempt for the NATO members.


You know I am absolutely right.
 
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