Why is Trump destroying NATO ?

Why is Trump destroying NATO?

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#77
#77
Grand Vol said:
This is just far too rich for me to ignore. Very long drawn out...nothing burger. But I'll tell you a little secret about abandoning Europe.

Blame your own party for that. Yep, Democrats are at the root of those problems. We can take a trip back to 2006 when they regained the House and Senate and the Iraq War became real unpopular and a voting tool. Everyone in the world knew Bush 43 was a lame duck at that point. He wasn't going to get anything done in office. Certainly didn't help Congress was divided on Iraq. Even more were your idiots pushing for impeachment of Bush. Putin saw it and also saw the vacuum of power being left behind.

Invade Georgia they did. And did we do anything about it? Nope. Two shooting wars at the time were enough for us. And do you really think Congress would have gone along with getting involved in yet another conflict?

Yeah, didn't think so.

Fast forward to the "Apology Tour" put on after Obama was inaugurated. First, he unilaterally decided to withdraw the ABM sites in Eastern Europe that were a thorn in Putin's side. The Russians hated them. Positively were something that grated at them. And what did we get in return?

Bumpkis.

And then decided to unilaterally reduce our nuclear deterrent. In hopes of making it "a safer world" or some such nonsense. Concurrent reductions by the Russians?

Nope.

Then we have the famous Red Line in Syria. Which was crossed and Obama did absolutely nothing about. You don't think Putin saw this? You don't think he saw what a empty shell of rhetoric Obama was?

You're stupid if you think he didn't see the chessboard evolving to a world where he could take advantage of it.

Continuing to the 2012 debates where Obama downplayed the Russian threat. "The 1980s called..." He might as well have given them carte blanche to do whatever they wanted since he admitted in public they weren't a threat.

Yeah, whoops. They invaded the Crimea and annexed it. And what did we do? We sent sleeping bags. Yep, they're still there.

Now, you say Trump is undermining NATO and Europe. I call that BS. They've wanted to play Big Boy on the world stage for a while. All the while also causing serious problems of their own. You blame Trump for calling a spade a spade? They've ****ed themselves up far more than he has. The UK wanted Brexit, we supported them (Trump did at least) and the rest of Europe wants to complain.

Their ****ing problem, fix it and make it beneficial for them to stay. However, that's not going to happen.

You say he undermines NATO and European leaders? They've undermined themselves far more than he can. You think Trump has sway over Merkel's government collapsing? Or the nationalistic Frenchman getting elected? Or Italy finally realizing how much they effed up by letting so many "refugees" in? Trump's responsible for all that? You give him far more credit than you let on.

He wants NATO to pay their fair share. You want to complain about that? He wants them to stop thinking they are the pitiful 5th grader that doesn't have the Derek Barnett sized big brother down the street. NATO has always been about reliance on each other. Sure, we're that big brother, but little brothers can help fight as well. Or help pay for the brass knuckles to punch someone in the mouth.

You want to know why Putin is out of control? Yeah, thank you Democratic Congress, thanks Obama and thanks Europe for effing it up themselves.
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Should have stuck with: "Trump good, Obama bad." It would have spared us the nonsense you just posted.
 
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#80
#80
Grand Vol said:
France started Vietnam? Or did Vietnam revolt against French rule in the first Indochina War and we slowly escalated our forces half a decade later?

I really want to see you link to the Afghanistan info.

Desert Storm was not a NATO action. And I really want to see the stats on how much the Saudis pitched in compared to the British and French.

Iraq, again, wasn't a NATO action. But there certainly have been good contributions by NATO members.

You're completely off on your analysis here.
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If Desert Storm wasn’t a NATO action, how was it a US action? Europe had just as much to lose if not more than the US with Hussein in Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia. I don’t recall God ordaining the US the protector of all things. As far as Vietnam goes, of course the French started it. Every other major nation began to give up colonialism except the French who tried to reassert themselves as a World power following their humiliation in WWII. They surrendered at Dien Bien Phu and then proceeded to push the UN to divide Vietnam into two separate nations. Ho reached out to the US for recognition of their rightfully won war for independence but the US could not turn its back on France so Ho turned to the Soviet Union for aid and they were all too willing to help. He was not a die hard communist, in fact the Viet Cong weren’t even allowed to participate in the victory ceremonies following their victory against the US. France pushes for separation similar to Korea which led to the Vietnam War instead of abandoning colonialism like the much more powerful British.

Afghanistan took multiple sites to total figures roughly:
BBC
Afghanistan War | History, Combatants, Facts, & Timeline | Britannica.com
• Soldiers killed in action in Afghanistan 2001-2018 | Statista
Who are the key players in Afghanistan? - CNN
That brief U.S.-Russia strategic partnership 15 years ago? New interviews reveal why it derailed. - The Washington Post
Chinese Special Operations Forces: “Lessons Learned” and Potential Missions - Jamestown
 
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#85
#85
zeppelin128 said:
Should have stuck with: "Trump good, Obama bad." It would have spared us the nonsense you just posted.
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Should have just refrained from posting a response.

It made you look far more ignorant since Putin was a problem well before Trump even considered running for office.
 
#91
#91
BigOrangeTrain said:
Nah, more like this.

When Peters worked for Fox

LG and other libs: Peters works for Faux news. He is clearly biased and cannot be trusted.

Now

LG and other libs: Peters no longer works for Faux news so he automatically becomes unbiased and trustworthy.
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He is still the same guy who called Obama a "pu$$y" on Stuart Varney's show. He is a biased conservative which makes his contempt for Trump worth listening to.

Trump's public criticism of our NATO allies combined with his public praise of Vladimir Putin makes many Republicans uncomfortable (see the Senate's 97-2 vote affirming a commitment to NATO today). Peters is not alone.
 
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#92
#92
BowlBrother85 said:
He is still the same guy who called Obama a "pu$$y" on Stuart Varney's show. He is a biased conservative which makes his contempt for Trump worth listening to.

Trump's public criticism of our NATO allies combined with his public praise of Vladimir Putin makes many Republicans uncomfortable (see the Senate's 97-2 vote affirming a commitment to NATO today). Peters is not alone.
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He's a media whore.... calls Obama a poon... which is in my opinion accurate..... while on Fox.... then slams Trump on CNN.
 
#100
#100
zeppelin128 said:
Posting an article from Fox News means we should do the opposite of what is suggested.
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Ok genius, I’m sure you are much more articulate and accomplished on these matters...I mean jeez Louise, how dare Fox allow a guy who’s given lectures at Harvard, Yale, all branches of the U.S. military and to many private organizations on national security issues around the world. He holds a graduate degree focusing on international relations from Harvard University. ...you’re right, he’s not qualified to opine.
 
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