Why isn't everyone a Democrat?

#305
#305
TennNC said:
stop the post right there.

attribute: to explain by indicating a cause

relate: to have relationship or connection

please use my words. not your hang-ups. call me out when I do the same to you.
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your implication was clearly that, at the very least, a portion of MGs success is attributable to others. I carried that further to include failure as well.

Having relationship or connection does nothing to support your point.

You were heading down the very predictable slope toward the common good theme.

If not, what was the point? Were you going to prove that MGs absolutist statement wasn't technically true? Very nice, but I'm guessing he's aware of his interrelatedness to others since he operates within the greater economy.

Finally, are you cool with excuses for failure from those working for or with you?
 
#306
#306
TennNC said:
which was meant to illustrate the absurdity that one's success is in no way related to what anyone else does.
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which, if you truly felt the need to highlight, says that your mincing and parsing of words to overly literal interpretation is a regular occurrence.

You know as well as I that MG isn't proclaiming to be Grizzly Adams, but does believe that he is the ultimate arbiter of his success or failure.
 
#307
#307
BigPapaVol said:
your implication was clearly that, at the very least, a portion of MGs success is attributable to others. I carried that further to include failure as well.

Having relationship or connection does nothing to support your point.

You were heading down the very predictable slope toward the common good theme.

If not, what was the point? Were you going to prove that MGs absolutist statement wasn't technically true? Very nice, but I'm guessing he's aware of his interrelatedness to others since he operates within the greater economy.

Finally, are you cool with excuses for failure from those working for or with you?
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Yes, that's my implication. And I would say that applies in part to failure as well. There are plenty of examples of hard-working people who were not solely responsible for their failure (re: Enron employees).

The part in bold is my point precisely. And I'm going to start another thread to start clean on this one.

I don't understand the relevance of the last question.
 
#308
#308
BigPapaVol said:
which, if you truly felt the need to highlight, says that your mincing and parsing of words to overly literal interpretation is a regular occurrence.

You know as well as I that MG isn't proclaiming to be Grizzly Adams, but does believe that he is the ultimate arbiter of his success or failure.
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Am I the only one who uses hyperbole or sarcasm to make a point on here?

If by "ultimate" you mean "utmost," I believe MG and you and I and everyone are the ultimate arbiters of each of our success. I just don't believe we are the only reasons for our success or failures (spiritual powers aside).

I think this is a fundamental difference in the way different people approach life -- and no, it doesn't mean that you have to be either Grizzly Adams or a welfare queen.
 
#309
#309
TennNC said:
Yes, that's my implication. And I would say that applies in part to failure as well. There are plenty of examples of hard-working people who were not solely responsible for their failure (re: Enron employees).

The part in bold is my point precisely. And I'm going to start another thread to start clean on this one.

I don't understand the relevance of the last question.
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the last question was about others making excuses involving other people or outside factors for their failures. It's very easy to let people displace the reasons for their failures. I would think that your opinion of our interrelatedness leads you to be pretty accepting of excuses. Acceptance of excuses is generally prelude to failure.
 
#310
#310
TennNC said:
Am I the only one who uses hyperbole or sarcasm to make a point on here?

If by "ultimate" you mean "utmost," I believe MG and you and I and everyone are the ultimate arbiters of each of our success. I just don't believe we are the only reasons for our success or failures (spiritual powers aside).

I think this is a fundamental difference in the way different people approach life -- and no, it doesn't mean that you have to be either Grizzly Adams or a welfare queen.
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by ultimate I meant has the final say. Everyone else can do their thing well, poorly or indifferently, but in the end, our success rests in our own abilities, actions and fortunes.
 
#312
#312
TennNC said:
Am I the only one who uses hyperbole or sarcasm to make a point on here?

If by "ultimate" you mean "utmost," I believe MG and you and I and everyone are the ultimate arbiters of each of our success. I just don't believe we are the only reasons for our success or failures (spiritual powers aside).

I think this is a fundamental difference in the way different people approach life -- and no, it doesn't mean that you have to be either Grizzly Adams or a welfare queen.
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I make the analagy with the thread like this. I don't want the money I make going to some piece of crap for his wheels on his ride.
 
#314
#314
BigPapaVol said:
the last question was about others making excuses involving other people or outside factors for their failures. It's very easy to let people displace the reasons for their failures. I would think that your opinion of our interrelatedness leads you to be pretty accepting of excuses. Acceptance of excuses is generally prelude to failure.
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I think you assume too much.

And not all factors are excuses.
 
#315
#315
TennNC said:
I think you assume too much.

And not all factors are excuses.
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I didn't assume. If you'll recall, I asked.

The factors comment is rationalization for accepting the originally set forth end. Call it anything you like, but it doesn't change what it is.

By the way, there are always valis reasons for not meeting the goal. My question is about acceptance of those "factors" in lieu of results.
 
#318
#318
BigPapaVol said:
By the way, there are always valis reasons for not meeting the goal. My question is about acceptance of those "factors" in lieu of results.
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I'll answer the question. You might not find it to your liking:

sometimes we should accept circumstances that either prevent success or create an equation where it's not worth trying to overcome those factors. in those cases, I would decide to take a different path to success.

sometimes people make excuses that cover up their own shortcomings, missteps, laziness, etc. in those cases, I would advocate trying to change the individual's behavior, or if I felt that individual was going to repeat the excuses without taking positive steps, I would give someone else the opportunity to succeed.

I believe in letting people learn from their mistakes/failures. I believe that there's not one path toward success and that we don't always know what the path is before we set down it. I believe sometimes people need a good, swift kick in the butt. And overall, I believe more that things are much more likely to be complex and gray than absolute. And I'm very comfortable with that.
 
#320
#320
TennNC said:
I'll answer the question. You might not find it to your liking:

sometimes we should accept circumstances that either prevent success or create an equation where it's not worth trying to overcome those factors. in those cases, I would decide to take a different path to success.

sometimes people make excuses that cover up their own shortcomings, missteps, laziness, etc. in those cases, I would advocate trying to change the individual's behavior, or if I felt that individual was going to repeat the excuses without taking positive steps, I would give someone else the opportunity to succeed.

I believe in letting people learn from their mistakes/failures. I believe that there's not one path toward success and that we don't always know what the path is before we set down it. I believe sometimes people need a good, swift kick in the butt. And overall, I believe more that things are much more likely to be complex and gray than absolute. And I'm very comfortable with that.
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I think it's vogue to be the benevolent leader and allow room for learning yadda, yadda. However, in practice I've found that acceptance of 1 blown goal leads to many more, even in groups of high achievers. Absolutes and no debates have been the best route for me. Strong characters and talented people accept it well and amazingly find ways to get things done.
 
#322
#322
BigPapaVol said:
I think it's vogue to be the benevolent leader and allow room for learning yadda, yadda. However, in practice I've found that acceptance of 1 blown goal leads to many more, even in groups of high achievers. Absolutes and no debates have been the best route for me. Strong characters and talented people accept it well and amazingly find ways to get things done.
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This is the heart of why you and I had this debate. I don't disagree with the second sentence one bit, but I also believe not everyone responds the same way to the same type of motivation.

I do work in advertising, so maybe I'm just advocating what is popular right now. I think it has more to do with my upbringing - I think most of our perspectives in life have to do with what we experienced at relatively early ages.
 
#323
#323
TennNC said:
This is the heart of why you and I had this debate. I don't disagree with the second sentence one bit, but I also believe not everyone responds the same way to the same type of motivation.

I do work in advertising, so maybe I'm just advocating what is popular right now. I think it has more to do with my upbringing - I think most of our perspectives in life have to do with what we experienced at relatively early ages.
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some of the differences are environmental, but part of mine are from practical application. I was much more accepting of excuses as a young man / officer than I am today.
 
#324
#324
for Obama, it's "do as I say, not as I do."

How tax-boosting Obama cuts his own - MSN Money

Obama fans, please tell me how this isn't blatant hypocrisy on his part. I'm not going to begrudge the money he's made, nor do I care if he's socked away 1 million dollars in a tax free retirement fund, but when he tells me that my taxes should be raised and that I should be grateful and join the collective...

well, that just sickens me.
 
#325
#325
MG1968 said:
for Obama, it's "do as I say, not as I do."

How tax-boosting Obama cuts his own - MSN Money

Obama fans, please tell me how this isn't blatant hypocrisy on his part. I'm not going to begrudge the money he's made, nor do I care if he's socked away 1 million dollars in a tax free retirement fund, but when he tells me that my taxes should be raised and that I should be grateful and join the collective...

well, that just sickens me.
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that's a stretch. Munis are tax exempt for good reason and investing in them yield taxable equivalent yields in decent return ranges amongst fixed income securities. If you want to be a conservative investor, muni funds make a lot of sense.

I just don't see this as tax avoidance.
 
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