Why No O-Linemen Recruited Yet?????????

[jave36]

Not how I remember it.

Your memory is off a bit

Just looked at his thread. People were worrying about his impending decomittment when he started scheduling visits in January. He never intended to go anywhere if Pittman wasn't there.

 

[jave36]

He didn't decommit...but he was gone...just waited to see where Pittman ended up.

Exactly.

 

[Vols4us]

Skipper was/is a smart young man.

 

[engineerVOL]

Skipper is Paul Bunyun

Skipper is 7-foot 9-inches by now.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Maybe so, but our OL has given up 5 times more sacks. Numbers don't lie.

Numbers lie all the time.

Driver a has had over 100 car wrecks, driver b has never had 1. Those numbers makes it seem like driver B is a much better driver. Driver A is Dale Earnhardt Jr and Driver B is a 5 year old.

 

[Vol Revolver]

Arky's OL leads the SEC with the fewest sacks given up. Man, I wish we still had Pittman.

The whole Oline last year went in to CBJs office when he was first hired and lobbied for him to keep Pitman. Not sure what CBJ was thinking on that one.

Pitman > Mahoney

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The whole Oline last year went in to CBJs office when he was first hired and lobbied for him to keep Pitman. Not sure what CBJ was thinking on that one.

Pitman > Mahoney

Yeah I'd totally fire a guy who I've worked with for 7 years for a guy I just met yesterday. Solid tactics.

 

[butchna]

The whole Oline last year went in to CBJs office when he was first hired and lobbied for him to keep Pitman. Not sure what CBJ was thinking on that one.

Pitman > Mahoney

He most likely remembered that Mahoney had taught and developed his offensive line each step up his coaching ladder and did what any of us would have done...if we had any coaching talent.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Yeah I'd totally fire a guy who I've worked with for 7 years for a guy I just met yesterday. Solid tactics.

When CBJ first got here, he didn't have anyone to fire...except those from the previous staff....which Pittman was one of, genius.

 

[Face]

The whole Oline last year went in to CBJs office when he was first hired and lobbied for him to keep Pitman. Not sure what CBJ was thinking on that one.

Pitman > Mahoney

Pittman is a great coach, yes.

However, if he'd done his job when he was here and actually recruited players, we wouldn't be in the mess. We'd be top 15, one loss to OU (maybe).

My guess is 1: Butch likes his own guys and 2 he looked at the depth chart and saw a gaping hole in OL depth and thought, "I can't have a guy with this little foresight on my staff."

 

[The Ron Mexico]

This thread should serve as an example of how clueless fans are. The same type of idiotic statements are being made everyday all over this board.

Reality: If any of you knew anything about coaching football at a high level you would be doing it for huge salaries.

 

[jave36]

Pittman is a great coach, yes.

However, if he'd done his job when he was here and actually recruited players, we wouldn't be in the mess. We'd be top 15, one loss to OU (maybe).

My guess is 1: Butch likes his own guys and 2 he looked at the depth chart and saw a gaping hole in OL depth and thought, "I can't have a guy with this little foresight on my staff."

What are you talking about? Pittman got fired before he could sign a recruiting class. He was here for one year, the year after we signed 0 OL. He had an excellent OL class on board before CBJ decided Mahoney was a better choice.

 

[keckjm]

Pittman is a great coach, yes.

However, if he'd done his job when he was here and actually recruited players, we wouldn't be in the mess. We'd be top 15, one loss to OU (maybe).

My guess is 1: Butch likes his own guys and 2 he looked at the depth chart and saw a gaping hole in OL depth and thought, "I can't have a guy with this little foresight on my staff."

Not trying to bash you, but you have zero clue about Pittman if you believe what you just stated. Pittman and Jay Graham where the only two guys in 2012 that had any idea on how to recruit in the SEC. Ansley and Hinshaw were ok as well. Pittman is a 10x better recruiter than Mahoney. Mahoney is the weak link in CBJ's Cincy staff. I'm going to let this play out, but an OL change may be coming, especially if we continue to strike out on elite OL prospects. The way I look at it is this, if you are a great coach then you can get by without elite talent, but if you are an average coach then you have to obtain elite talent. The real issue comes when you suck at recruiting and can't coach up talent.

 

[Face]

Not trying to bash you, but you have zero clue about Pittman if you believe what you just stated. Pittman and Jay Graham where the only two guys in 2012 that had any idea on how to recruit in the SEC. Ansley and Hinshaw were ok as well. Pittman is a 10x better recruiter than Mahoney. Mahoney is the weak link in CBJ's Cincy staff. I'm going to let this play out, but an OL change may be coming, especially if we continue to strike out on elite OL prospects. The way I look at it is this, if you are a great coach then you can get by without elite talent, but if you are an average coach then you have to obtain elite talent. The real issue comes when you suck at recruiting and can't coach up talent.

My bad. Usually try to do my research but got my asst coaches mixed up in this one.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Not trying to bash you, but you have zero clue about Pittman if you believe what you just stated. Pittman and Jay Graham where the only two guys in 2012 that had any idea on how to recruit in the SEC. Ansley and Hinshaw were ok as well. Pittman is a 10x better recruiter than Mahoney. Mahoney is the weak link in CBJ's Cincy staff. I'm going to let this play out, but an OL change may be coming, especially if we continue to strike out on elite OL prospects. The way I look at it is this, if you are a great coach then you can get by without elite talent, but if you are an average coach then you have to obtain elite talent. The real issue comes when you suck at recruiting and can't coach up talent.

That's what really bothers me about Mahoney. Much like Martinez, Thig, or Strip last year, I could deal with the poor play of his position if he was recruiting up a storm. But he's completely struck out on game changers for us and has mis-evaluated the highly rated guy he has signed (Blair).

 

[jave36]

That's what really bothers me about Mahoney. Much like Martinez, Thig, or Strip last year, I could deal with the poor play of his position if he was recruiting up a storm. But he's completely struck out on game changers for us and has mis-evaluated the highly rated guy he has signed (Blair).

Thomas and Robertson might turn out OK, but every other position coach is getting production out of whatever players they were given, except Mahoney. You can't tell me Dooley left behind great players all over except on the OL, yet dooley players on defense are playing very well. Coaches are maximizing potential everywhere except OL.

They're not good, they're awful; but they're not the least 5 talented players to ever play college football like their stats indicate. Scheme and coaching aren't getting the most out of them.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Thomas and Robertson might turn out OK, but every other position coach is getting production out of whatever players they were given, except Mahoney. You can't tell me Dooley left behind great players all over except on the OL, yet dooley players on defense are playing very well. Coaches are maximizing potential everywhere except OL.

They're not good, they're awful; but they're not the least 5 talented players to ever play college football like their stats indicate. Scheme and coaching aren't getting the most out of them.

What scheme changes can we make for our OL to magically be better?

Go under center and try to run power? That would make our OL worse. They have enough trouble in a spread scheme that actually helps mitigate a poor OL somewhat.

Try to rollout and move the pocket? You saw how terrible Worley is throwing on the run. He couldn't hit an elephant rolling out to the right or left.

Less zone read? We only actually run a few of those a game.

More QB run? Worley is a terrible runner?

Go to more 2TE sets? Our best TEs are freshmen and we only have one good blocking TE. Letting a defense play seven or eight men in the box instead spreading them out won't take pressure off of our OL.

You can't cover up an OL as truly terrible as ours against top 25 competition with any type of scheme. They're that bad. Easily the worst OL to ever wear the Orange. Do you honestly think any of our starting five start at another SEC or even PAC12 school? The only way it will get better is by a combination of experience, physical development, and recruiting.

As far as other Dooley players producing, those guys all have experience. Our OL had a combined 6 starts entering the season and has been playing 3 OGs (Kerbyson, Jackson, and Robertson) and 2 Centers (Crowder and Thomas) since week 3. There is just a complete lack of talent, depth, and experience.

 

[jave36]

What scheme changes can we make for our OL to magically be better?

Go under center and try to run power? That would make our OL worse. They have enough trouble in a spread scheme that actually helps mitigate a poor OL somewhat.

Try to rollout and move the pocket? You saw how terrible Worley is throwing on the run. He couldn't hit an elephant rolling out to the right or left.

Less zone read? We only actually run a few of those a game.

More QB run? Worley is a terrible runner?

Go to more 2TE sets? Our best TEs are freshmen and we only have one good blocking TE. Letting a defense play seven or eight men in the box instead spreading them out won't take pressure off of our OL.

You can't cover up an OL as truly terrible as ours against top 25 competition with any type of scheme. They're that bad. Easily the worst OL to ever wear the Orange. Do you honestly think any of our starting five start at another SEC or even PAC12 school? The only way it will get better is by a combination of experience, physical development, and recruiting.

As far as other Dooley players producing, those guys all have experience. Our OL had a combined 6 starts entering the season and has been playing 3 OGs (Kerbyson, Jackson, and Robertson) and 2 Centers (Crowder and Thomas) since week 3. There is just a complete lack of talent, depth, and experience.

When OL is losing you games, you give RB and TE help. Period.

And I just can't believe that a good position coach and SC coach with 9 months with the #1 juco OL in the country couldn't get him to at least be more serviceable than Kerby or Thomas. No one could possibly be so out of shape that 9 months on campus can't get them to where they can contribute. And unless every major team who offered him are terrible evaluators, he has the talent.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

When OL is losing you games, you give RB and TE help. Period.

And I just can't believe that a good position coach and SC coach with 9 months with the #1 juco OL in the country couldn't get him to at least be more serviceable than Kerby or Thomas. No one could possibly be so out of shape that 9 months on campus can't get them to where they can contribute.

1. Blair was not the consensus #1 JUCO OL in the country.

2. Look at the top 10 JUCO OL in the country. Most aren't starting either.

3 (this the big one). We've oven our OTs help with TEs and/or RBs. Often, our OGs get their asses whipped on these plays and mitigate the extra help. Go back and watch the offensive tape from our last few games. On a large percentage of the sacks we've give up (at least half), we have a numerical advantage as far as blockers and pass rushers go. Our OL is just so terrible that we can't count on any one guy to not get beat.

4. Tonight we got a glimpse of just how bad some of our backup OL are. It's not like the coaches are benching a lineman who can improve the unit.


I can totally understand being upset with Mahoney for not developing what he has or bringing in better talent. But to blame it all on scheme is downright ignorant and short sighted. Our OC is obviosuly hamstrung by our terrible OL. We saw how well our run game could be with this scheme last year (best in a decade) despite having no consistent WR or QB play.

If this team has last year's OL, the Jalen Hurd is on track to being a freshman all american and we're likely doing huge damage on play action. Unfortunately, we have an OL that is terrible. That's really all there is to our offense beig so bad.

 

[wildorange]

Play some wildcat, line Hurd back there. Line Pig back there, work on some quick plays with them in that package. We have nothing to lose. GO VOLS!!

 

[jave36]

1. Blair was not the consensus #1 JUCO OL in the country.

2. Look at the top 10 JUCO OL in the country. Most aren't starting either.

3 (this the big one). We've oven our OTs help with TEs and/or RBs. Often, our OGs get their asses whipped on these plays and mitigate the extra help. Go back and watch the offensive tape from our last few games. On a large percentage of the sacks we've give up (at least half), we have a numerical advantage as far as blockers and pass rushers go. Our OL is just so terrible that we can't count on any one guy to not get beat.

4. Tonight we got a glimpse of just how bad some of our backup OL are. It's not like the coaches are benching a lineman who can improve the unit.


I can totally understand being upset with Mahoney for not developing what he has or bringing in better talent. But to blame it all on scheme is downright ignorant and short sighted. Our OC is obviosuly hamstrung by our terrible OL. We saw how well our run game could be with this scheme last year (best in a decade) despite having no consistent WR or QB play.

If this team has last year's OL, the Jalen Hurd is on track to being a freshman all american and we're likely doing huge damage on play action. Unfortunately, we have an OL that is terrible. That's really all there is to our offense beig so bad.

My main beef is with lack of progress and development, ie Mahoney.

But more often than not, there is no TE help and no RB help. You're right sometimes there's RB help and 2 guys get in the backfield. But way too often there's no help at all, and with this OL, there should be a minimum of 6 blockers the majority of plays. Lose the game for a different reason, not the same one over and over.

 

[#Vol4Life1991]

1. Blair was not the consensus #1 JUCO OL in the country.

2. Look at the top 10 JUCO OL in the country. Most aren't starting either.

3 (this the big one). We've oven our OTs help with TEs and/or RBs. Often, our OGs get their asses whipped on these plays and mitigate the extra help. Go back and watch the offensive tape from our last few games. On a large percentage of the sacks we've give up (at least half), we have a numerical advantage as far as blockers and pass rushers go. Our OL is just so terrible that we can't count on any one guy to not get beat.

4. Tonight we got a glimpse of just how bad some of our backup OL are. It's not like the coaches are benching a lineman who can improve the unit.


I can totally understand being upset with Mahoney for not developing what he has or bringing in better talent. But to blame it all on scheme is downright ignorant and short sighted. Our OC is obviosuly hamstrung by our terrible OL. We saw how well our run game could be with this scheme last year (best in a decade) despite having no consistent WR or QB play.

If this team has last year's OL, the Jalen Hurd is on track to being a freshman all american and we're likely doing huge damage on play action. Unfortunately, we have an OL that is terrible. That's really all there is to our offense beig so bad.

:salute:

 

[Adam Sandler]

Well the worst part is this team is completely dependent on making progress game to game because of the overall lack of experience. Then, the schedule is getting harder game to game. It's like running except you're chasing a car. They can't keep up. And they're falling behind, or left, or backwards, or seemingly anywhere that would allow a defensive player to make a play.

I think unfortunately we end up staying in the "well next year" mindset and our first year to really expect us to be contending is 2016. We'll have players at literally every position that would have at least two years experience and a consistent influx of quality talent. That's how you build depth.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

My main beef is with lack of progress and development, ie Mahoney.

But more often than not, there is no TE help and no RB help. You're right sometimes there's RB help and 2 guys get in the backfield. But way too often there's no help at all, and with this OL, there should be a minimum of 6 blockers the majority of plays. Lose the game for a different reason, not the same one over and over.

That's just not true though. We run with one TE and one RB a majority of the time. If you pay attention, any of the passes that aren't two step drops, we have at least one of those guys chip before running their route, if not stay in and block. That's the main reason Hurd saw so much playing time the first two weeks when Lane was averaging more YPC--because he's such a good pass blocker. Bajakian is using more than 5 guys to pass block on the large majority of the pass plays. The problem is that there always seems to be at least one guy who can't hold the rope.

Saying that we never use a TE or RB to help protect over and over won't make it true.

 

[Adam Sandler]

That's just not true though. We run with one TE and one RB a majority of the time. If you pay attention, any of the passes that aren't two step drops, we have at least one of those guys chip before running their route, if not stay in and block. That's the main reason Hurd saw so much playing time the first two weeks when Lane was averaging more YPC--because he's such a good pass blocker. Bajakian is using more than 5 guys to pass block on the large majority of the pass plays. The problem is that there always seems to be at least one guy who can't hold the rope.

Saying that we never use a TE or RB to help protect over and over won't make it true.

Regardless of the extra help, it's just what you mentioned. It always seems someone messes up. That's a lack of experience, development, and chemistry. And that makes the trainwreck we keep having to watch.