Why Reality Blows Up Anti-Abortion Rhetoric

#76
#76
utvolpj said:
So you have govt set a timeframe that essentially eliminate it all? Hooray govt who is clearly more educated than someone neck deep in it for years and their doctors
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Are you okay with viable kids being aborted? If so, why?
 
#77
#77
Vol8188 said:
Not at all. I’d have no issue with an exemption for non viable. You can set the limit at a heartbeat and then allow exemptions for kids who would die regardless.
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But I even said it's not always the case. Your just making up exceptions to make you feel better about your govt imposed ban.
 
#80
#80
utvolpj said:
No but I'm also not going to make that choice for anyone else. I'm not going to force my personal beliefs on someone else
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About murder? You believe it’s wrong to force your personal beliefs about murder onto people?

We both agree the fetus is viable. It has a heartbeat. And you terminate that?

what you’re saying is we shouldn’t as a society ban murder because it’s a personal belief that shouldn’t be forced on others? That’s absurd
 
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#81
#81
Vol8188 said:
You even said what’s not always the case?
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You said die regardless. Now you're going to have to set a tolerance for that metric as well. 6mos? Less than 1yr? It's a neverending rabbit hole
 
#82
#82
Vol8188 said:
About murder? You believe it’s wrong to force your personal beliefs about murder onto people?

We both agree the fetus is viable. It has a heartbeat. And you terminate that?

what you’re saying is we shouldn’t as a society ban murder because it’s a personal belief that shouldn’t be forced on others? That’s absurd
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No, we don't agree that a 6wk fetus is viable. I'm not sure anyone does. You also assume I define abortion as murder which is incorrect
 
#83
#83
VolStrom said:
The bottom line to the abortion rights side is that it's a form of birth control, and probably 95% of all abortions are because someone got pregnant when they didn't want to.
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When @n_huffhines discussed the abortion position in conservative's beliefs from years ago, it was mostly related to rape, incest, detriment to the mother. At least, as far I could tell. It has evolved into a post pregnancy birth control mechanism. And, I think this practice is where much of the disagreement is found.
 
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#84
#84
utvolpj said:
You said die regardless. Now you're going to have to set a tolerance for that metric as well. 6mos? Less than 1yr? It's a neverending rabbit hole
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Rather than go down that reasonable rabbit hole you’d rather go down the unreasonable one of “just kill them all”?
 
#85
#85
utvolpj said:
No, we don't agree that a 6wk fetus is viable. I'm not sure anyone does. You also assume I define abortion as murder which is incorrect
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We can disagree about six weeks but unless you’re really sick at some point you’d have to agree it’s murder. Do you not?
 
#86
#86
Vol8188 said:
Rather that go down that reasonable rabbit hole you’d rather go down the unreasonable one of “just kill them all”?
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I'm doing nothing of the sort. Each person makes their own decision
 
#87
#87
utvolpj said:
I'm doing nothing of the sort. Each person makes their own decision
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Yeah, that’s the unreasonable kill them all argument. And to be clear your justification for this is because you believe “viability” is too subjective?
 
#89
#89
People: Bans don't do any good. It hasn't worked with drugs, it has never worked with guns. They're a waste of time and clog up the works.

Same people: Ban abortion! Extremely limited or no exceptions! This ban will be different!
 
#91
#91
AshG said:
People: Bans don't do any good. It hasn't worked with drugs, it has never worked with guns. They're a waste of time and clog up the works.

Same people: Ban abortion! Extremely limited or no exceptions! This ban will be different!
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Yes, I support murder laws. How non libertarian of me. Clearly I love big government intervention.
 
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#92
#92
Vol8188 said:
So your answer is that at no point, regardless of viability, at no point is an act of murder? A 9 month abortion is just a “medical procedure”?
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Abortions Later in Pregnancy

Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestational age are rare. They are often difficult to obtain, as they are typically costly, time-intensive and only performed by a small subset of abortion providers. Yet these abortions receive a disproportionate amount of attention in the news, policy and the law, and discussions on this topic are often fraught with misinformation; for example, intense public discussions have been sparked after several policymakers have theorized about abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth.” In reality, these scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal, in the U.S.
 
#93
#93
Vol8188 said:
Yeah, that’s the unreasonable kill them all argument. And to be clear your justification for this is because you believe “viability” is too subjective?
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Again, I'm in favor of the individual making their own decision. I know there are people making very informed decisions. It's convenient but unfair to try and lump them all together
 
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#94
#94
Vol8188 said:
I would only offer one minor critique.

I’d argue the reason we created governments was to protect rights but in practice you are correct. In practice they function more so to limit rights, but their intended purpose is protection of rights
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I can agree with this.
 
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#95
#95
AshG said:
People: Bans don't do any good. It hasn't worked with drugs, it has never worked with guns. They're a waste of time and clog up the works.

Same people: Ban abortion! Extremely limited or no exceptions! This ban will be different!
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Did you listen to any of the Supreme Court arguments today? Mississippi is arguing for state's rights to determine abortion rules and openly admitted that most states would not change their abortion rights.
 
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#96
#96
AshG said:
Abortions Later in Pregnancy

Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestational age are rare. They are often difficult to obtain, as they are typically costly, time-intensive and only performed by a small subset of abortion providers. Yet these abortions receive a disproportionate amount of attention in the news, policy and the law, and discussions on this topic are often fraught with misinformation; for example, intense public discussions have been sparked after several policymakers have theorized about abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth.” In reality, these scenarios do not occur, nor are they legal, in the U.S.
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Do not occur is referring to after birth. Yet those have occurred and it was part of a major court case in PA. The point we are discussing is late term abortions which do occur and like all abortions are almost entirely don’t for elective purposes
 
#97
#97
VolStrom said:
Did you listen to any of the Supreme Court arguments today? Mississippi is arguing for state's rights to determine abortion rules and openly admitted that most states would not change their abortion rights.
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I haven't listened yet, that's coming here in a few when I get off work.
 
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#98
#98
AshG said:
People: Bans don't do any good. It hasn't worked with drugs, it has never worked with guns. They're a waste of time and clog up the works.

Same people: Ban abortion! Extremely limited or no exceptions! This ban will be different!
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A ban is only useful to provide the foundation for punishment after violation.
I cannot imagine a world where every woman who has had an abortion is punished.
 
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#99
#99
McDad said:
We have as a society also agreed to give government the authority to make laws which are limiting to our rights.
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Correct but as with every government ever established our morphed into a self serving/protecting entity divorced from it's original purpose. And of course that is our fault too.
 
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#100
#100
Vol8188 said:
Do not occur is referring to after birth. Yet those have occurred and it was part of a major court case in PA. The point we are discussing is late term abortions which do occur and like all abortions are almost entirely don’t for elective purposes
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I need you to provide corroborating information, please.
 
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