Why the heck not?

[UTFranklinVol]

If we lose to Bama and UK in a row and we can definitively see that Milton was the reason for the losses then by all means start Nico because the season is essentially over in terms of playoff prospects.

Until then whoever CJH says should be QB1 should be QB1 and we should support that.

 

[white65]

If Milton had not gotten injured two years ago Hooker would've never gotten a shot. That not a certainty, but considering the lack of willingness to even consider another option... it is hard to watch.

I could understand if Milton was improving, but he seems to be regressing in the big moments and games.

 

[ConantheVolbarian]

Dang, I missed that Josh Heupel coached Dobbs. I could've sworn that was Butch Jones. And I must have been dreaming that it was Jeremy Pruitt who coached JG.

Why don't you just come out and say it: You don't think Coach Josh Heupel knows what he's doing. You think he's in the category of Butch and Pruitt.

That's what you're actually saying, so just be honest about it.

Life isn't that black and white, bud. What I am saying is he started Milton over Hooker until Milton got hurt and we found out Hooker was way more of a baller in game than Milton is.

 

[Volhoops]

Sing along everyone
"Wasting another season in Guarantanoville,
Watching bad questerback play.
The same people say we can.t play a freshman,
but I know it's been done before"

You know we've seen bad QB play before and all we heard is can't play someone else.

 

[ftsandersvol]

 

[sjt18]

Well... he had a known history of being a practice hero and being a game zero. It was all laid out in his time at UM, and they gave him his walking papers.

So no player gets beat out, transfers, and then becomes really good? Ever heard of Bo Nix? Burrow? Players develop at different rates. Some do well with a change.

The last part simply isn't true. He earned a degree from Michigan and decided to transfer out. Do you have evidence that they were pulling his scholarship or told him to leave?

And you didn't answer the question. How well do you think a coach will do if he makes a habit of playing guys who aren't as good in practice over better performers?

 

[sjt18]

Sing along everyone
"Wasting another season in Guarantanoville,
Watching bad questerback play.
The same people say we can.t play a freshman,
but I know it's been done before"

You know we've seen bad QB play before and all we heard is can't play someone else.

Sure. Let's take a look at that comparison.

Statistically, they're similar.

But there's a big difference. JG was something like 18-25 as a starter. His play didn't just blunt the passing game. It lost games. It hurt the run game. Milton is 9-2 as a starter for UT.

You can give Heupel credit... but while you're at it... give him some credit and trust too.

 

[Volhoops]

Sure. Let's take a look at that comparison.

Statistically, they're similar.

But there's a big difference. JG was something like 18-25 as a starter. His play didn't just blunt the passing game. It lost games. It hurt the run game. Milton is 9-2 as a starter for UT.

You can give Heupel credit... but while you're at it... give him some credit and trust too.

You are trying to compare Butch Jones and Gump's coaching to Heupel's. JG was every bit the player Milton is. He just suffered from bad teams and coaching.

 

[sjt18]

You are trying to compare Butch Jones and Gump's coaching to Heupel's. JG was every bit the player Milton is. He just suffered from bad teams and coaching.

JG was worse than Milton. He just was. He was a big part of two coaches being fired.

Heupel is much better than either of them... which is precisely why folks like you should give him the benefit of the doubt concerning Milton and Nico.

 

[cgrish]

It's just not ideal. Sure it could work, but the odds are stacked. What if he comes out and looks like Peterman against UF. You don't come back from that. Not to mention a serious injury derails next season.

Has anyone even thought about what it would do to the locker room. Joe is very well thought of and maybe pulling him would cause division in the locker room, and then we get play like we had at sc last year. Just a thought, I could be totally wrong.

 

[cgrish]

I'll agree. That opportunity has to be earned by beating someone out ahead of you (determined by the coach) or by injury.

He's actually suggesting Heupel screwed up in starting Milton previously. He's insinuating our coach can't judge QBs.

I think Hype is a great coach, but he did make a mistake by thinking Milton was better than Hooker. Hooker would not have started if Milton had not got hurt.

 

[MiramarVol]

I keep hearing everyone say that it would be foolish to start a true freshman in Tuscaloosa and my question is "Why?" He is a 5 Star and he is getting paid big money to deliver big performances like SEC road wins. The truth is we have no clue what he is capable of playing meaningful snaps with the starters. What would it hurt to roll the dice and start him the first drive and see what he can do? We know what we have with Joe. He is struggling. It is what it is. But Nico is still an intriguing mystery.

The reason? High School Defenses vs Elite College Defenses He ain't ready to excel yet. He can make some reads, he will complete some passes, but beat Bama is a little much to ask of a Frshman QB. Bray"s 1st pass was a pick 6 against South Carolina.

 

[TNStudMuffin]

So no player gets beat out, transfers, and then becomes really good? Ever heard of Bo Nix? Burrow? Players develop at different rates. Some do well with a change.

The last part simply isn't true. He earned a degree from Michigan and decided to transfer out. Do you have evidence that they were pulling his scholarship or told him to leave?

And you didn't answer the question. How well do you think a coach will do if he makes a habit of playing guys who aren't as good in practice over better performers?

Your whole thing is that he looked good in practice. He was known to look good in practice and be sub-par in games. This was known about him at UM, there was a proven track record of it. So, perhaps how he did in practice should have been taken into consideration with a little bit different perspective than your average transfer. And no, I have no evidence his scholarship was being pulled and never meant that it was. Perhaps I should have said "the writing was on the wall".

 

[volfan102455]

I think Hype is a great coach, but he did make a mistake by thinking Milton was better than Hooker. Hooker would not have started if Milton had not got hurt.

So CJH should have started the QB that did not win that position on the practice field? Why have practices if you are not using those to prepare for the games? You are also assuming that CJH would not have given Hooker a shot in some games even if Milton had not gotten hurt. None of us know how it would have played out.

What you are saying is that you really don't think CJH is a good coach.

 

[sjt18]

Your whole thing is that he looked good in practice. He was known to look good in practice and be sub-par in games. This was known about him at UM, there was a proven track record of it. So, perhaps how he did in practice should have been taken into consideration with a little bit different perspective than your average transfer. And no, I have no evidence his scholarship was being pulled and never meant that it was. Perhaps I should have said "the writing was on the wall".

He left on his own after earning a degree and being beaten out. And again, all players who fail should be written off, right? A change of program, system, coach, etc NEVER gets a player back on track, correct?

I don't think Milton is performing. I answered a pretty ridiculous question, "why the heck not?" There could come a time when pulling the plug is the only answer. At 5-1 going into the Bama game... isn't it. And once again, the calculation to make a change to Nico has to include what is best for Nico's development and the future of the program.... not just what MIGHT help now.

My whole thing is that you cannot simply ignore who performs best in practice. For one, the best performers in practice are usually the best performers on Saturday. Two, if you start just going on a whim and ignoring who practices best then players will quickly recognize that their effort in practice doesn't get them anything. Fulmer's "turn" was characterized by "you stay, you play". They routinely started guys who had waited their turn. Who practiced best didn't determine who played.

Even if you end up playing someone who isn't as good on Saturday as during the week, your best strategic move is to play the guys who practice best. That's the way you motivate guys to use practice to get better.

 

[TNStudMuffin]

He left on his own after earning a degree and being beaten out. And again, all players who fail should be written off, right? A change of program, system, coach, etc NEVER gets a player back on track, correct?

I don't think Milton is performing. I answered a pretty ridiculous question, "why the heck not?" There could come a time when pulling the plug is the only answer. At 5-1 going into the Bama game... isn't it. And once again, the calculation to make a change to Nico has to include what is best for Nico's development and the future of the program.... not just what MIGHT help now.

My whole thing is that you cannot simply ignore who performs best in practice. For one, the best performers in practice are usually the best performers on Saturday. Two, if you start just going on a whim and ignoring who practices best then players will quickly recognize that their effort in practice doesn't get them anything. Fulmer's "turn" was characterized by "you stay, you play". They routinely started guys who had waited their turn. Who practiced best didn't determine who played.

Even if you end up playing someone who isn't as good on Saturday as during the week, your best strategic move is to play the guys who practice best. That's the way you motivate guys to use practice to get better.

But it's not "going on a whim", you know for a fact that the guy you are watching is historically proven to be a practice hero and a game day letdown. We aren't talking about "all players", we are talking about this player in this circumstance.

 

[sjt18]

I think Hype is a great coach, but he did make a mistake by thinking Milton was better than Hooker. Hooker would not have started if Milton had not got hurt.

This false narrative just keeps rising. You simply have NO WAY of knowing that. None.

Milton blew everyone away in practice. Going into that season Hooker's past was hardly any more confidence building as Milton's. He had started games and lost his job to a guy who eventually turned out to be pretty mediocre. Hooker had an opportunity in spring. He was better than the others but didn't do what was necessary to lock it down. Bailey, Maurer, et al were even worse.

At the point when the staff chose a game 1 starter there was ONLY one rational choice. The guy who had blown everyone else away in practice. What should they have done? Guess? Ignore practice?

Milton played the first game and didn't do well. He hurt his leg in the 2nd qtr vs Pitt. Hooker showed a spark even though they lost. Milton was healthy enough to play the very next game. Heupel started Hooker but didn't name him #1. After seeing what Hooker did with the opportunity, Heupel made him the starter.

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

You may be forgetting the heupel and co get to watch nico every day. So they know what we have and they must not believe he’s ready. If it starts getting out of hand that’s when we may see him to give us a spark.

Exactly. They've got their eye on the road and their hand upon the wheel.

 

[sjt18]

But it's not "going on a whim", you know for a fact that the guy you are watching is historically proven to be a practice hero and a game day letdown. We aren't talking about "all players", we are talking about this player in this circumstance.

Right because guys never improve. They never leave one situation and flourish in another. Interesting that you ignored the logic except for this.

So now you are suggesting that different rules be applied to different players? Yeah. That's good for a team culture too. And you cannot ignore two things about Hooker. One, he couldn't claim the job starting in spring. Two, his past didn't scream "start me" either. Just like Milton, he transferred to UT because he had been benched in favor of another guy at VT.

So you have two guys like that and you are NOT supposed to start the guy who blew the others away in August?

Hindsight is 20/20 but at the point that decision was made... there was no other decision that could have been made.

Right now there are still a LOT of reasons not to start Nico. I think the positive reasons to start Milton are diminishing. The passing game isn't good and a lot of it lays at his feet. But that does not mean that the best decision is to replace him with Nico... and they can't really replace him with Moore.


So IMO the answer is to have more designed runs for Milton. If he can't pass well enough to keep D's honest then he has to be a running threat.

 

[TNStudMuffin]

Right because guys never improve. They never leave one situation and flourish in another. Interesting that you ignored the logic except for this.

So now you are suggesting that different rules be applied to different players? Yeah. That's good for a team culture too. And you cannot ignore two things about Hooker. One, he couldn't claim the job starting in spring. Two, his past didn't scream "start me" either. Just like Milton, he transferred to UT because he had been benched in favor of another guy at VT.

So you have two guys like that and you are NOT supposed to start the guy who blew the others away in August?

Hindsight is 20/20 but at the point that decision was made... there was no other decision that could have been made.

Right now there are still a LOT of reasons not to start Nico. I think the positive reasons to start Milton are diminishing. The passing game isn't good and a lot of it lays at his feet. But that does not mean that the best decision is to replace him with Nico... and they can't really replace him with Moore.


So IMO the answer is to have more designed runs for Milton. If he can't pass well enough to keep D's honest then he has to be a running threat.

We aren't going to agree on this, so let's just be done with that aspect of things.

But I do agree that right now is not the time to start Nico. *IF* Milton absolutely screws the pooch against Bama, maybe consider it then. And yes, they need to tell Milton he has to start running more often and running smartly.

 

[jeff1vol]

Goodness, the stupidity on this board has no bounds.

Care to expand or just throw out brainless insults?

 

[sjt18]

We aren't going to agree on this, so let's just be done with that aspect of things.

But I do agree that right now is not the time to start Nico. *IF* Milton absolutely screws the pooch against Bama, maybe consider it then. And yes, they need to tell Milton he has to start running more often and running smartly.

OK. Thankfully Heupel is a good coach and good coaches don't do it the way you think it should be done.

 

[jeff1vol]

That's pure ignorance. There is more to being the QB than routes on air. There is no reason not to bring him along at the right pace. There is no reason to play him too early and risk his future.

Nico will be a good QB and having a year to develop before being thrown in works to his advantage and to the benefit of the program.

Let Milton start against Bama, sure. When he ends up crapping the bed, let Nico have the reigns the rest of the season. Why not? Give Nico some real experience for next year. At that point, the season is over as far as any type of championship is concerned. If not... we start Nico next year with ZERO real experience. That doesn't sound like a great idea either. But my "pure ignorance" is noted.

 

[jeff1vol]

That’s the way I feel about it also. If the 5 star with 10 mos studying the system isn’t at least semi ready perhaps he’s not as great as we hoped. Time will tell I suppose.

Wait a second... I thought the "stupidity on this board" had no bounds? Glad someone else has some semblance of foresight. If Nico doesn't get experience, we're starting ALL OVER next Fall. Give him Missouri, Kentucky and even UGA at home. He could be a real gamer.

 

[sjt18]

Let Milton start against Bama, sure. When he ends up crapping the bed, let Nico have the reigns the rest of the season. Why not?

For the 6 reasons I mentioned earlier at a minimum. There are a lot of really good "why nots". Some have to do with what's best for the future of Nico and the program. Some have to do with who the coaches believe give the Vols their best chance of success now.

It isn't just that they're smarter and more qualified than you to make that decision. Even bigger than that is that they have FAR more information than you do. They see the QBs every day in practice.

For me, what Heupel has done since arriving at UT MORE than trumps your credibility to make this criticism.

Give Nico some real experience for next year. At that point, the season is over as far as any type of championship is concerned. If not... we start Nico next year with ZERO real experience. That doesn't sound like a great idea either. But my "pure ignorance" is noted.

It is pure ignorance... and you just keep digging. Nico gets reps every day. He's in the film room every day. He needs S&C. Heupel knows much more than YOU about developing QBs. Can we agree to that? He is working a plan for this team and Nico.