Why the Heisman Trophy is Horse----

#1
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mikey

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#1
Four reasons...Doug Flutie, Ty Detmer, Gino Toretta, Eddie George...the last one's when I quit paying attention to it. It's just a popularity contest.
 
#2
#2
mikey said:
It's just a popularity contest.
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Then why get worked up about it?

Yes, a good argument can be made that they got it wrong in 1997, but it's not like they committed a crime against humanity.
 
#4
#4
GAVol said:
Then why get worked up about it?

Yes, a good argument can be made that they got it wrong in 1997, but it's not like they committed a crime against humanity.
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I'm not worked up about it. I pay very little attention to it. I'm just posting a response to the other thread and starting a conversation. My real point is that most UT fans say that it's horse--- (or bull---, if you prefer) because of the Manning-Woodson year, but the Heisman has had a much longer, more illustrious history of horse----dom than that one year.
 
#5
#5
mikey said:
I'm not worked up about it. I pay very little attention to it. I'm just posting a response to the other thread and starting a conversation. My real point is that most UT fans say that it's horse--- (or bull---, if you prefer) because of the Manning-Woodson year, but the Heisman has had a much longer, more illustrious history of horse----dom than that one year.
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Maybe so, but I think Tennessee fans almost have to disqualify themselves from having an objective opinion after '97.

The strange thing about the Heisman is how muddled the field has been recently. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I was growing up in the 80s, it seemed like there were a lot more wire to wire clear cut Heisman winners like Marcus Allen, Hershel Walker, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders etc.
 
#6
#6
GAVol said:
Maybe so, but I think Tennessee fans almost have to disqualify themselves from having an objective opinion after '97.

The strange thing about the Heisman is how muddled the field has been recently. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I was growing up in the 80s, it seemed like there were a lot more wire to wire clear cut Heisman winners like Marcus Allen, Hershel Walker, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders etc.
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i have to agree, as i'm one of those TN fans that can't have an objective opinion...

and i also agree with you about it was a lot more clear cut in the 80's and even early 90s. today, it's the star player on the best team. YOu won't see any Andre Ware's or Dante Culpepers or David klinglers anymore ever winning the heismen. If you don't play for OSU, USC, Michigain, ND....it's almost impossible to even be considered....that's probably a bit harsh, but i stand by my objective opinion about the Heisman as a TN fan...:p
 
#7
#7
Here's the thing...the trophy is supposed to go to "the best player in college football". Hence, Paul Hornung won it playing on a 2-8 ND team. He wouldn't even be considered today. Today it is all about stats and wins. First,wins should have nothing to do with it. It's not a team trophy. Secondly, the best player in college football might not have the best stats. My biggest problem with the Manning thing is consistency. People made the argument, all of the sudden, that Woodson was "the best player in college football" that year. Fine...I'll buy that, but be consistent. Nobody will ever convince me that Eddie George was a better college football player than Tommie Frazier...but he had better stats (because of good O linemen who never get consideration)...and that's my diatribe on the Heisman Trophy. By the way, as an O line coach, that whole "never get consideration" thing bugs the :censored: out of me, too.
 
#9
#9
finevol said:
The biggest reason, Manning did not win it.
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IF...you base it on stats and "he's good for the game", then yes...but overall, he wasn't a "better college football player" than Woodson. I say that because, in college, guys can still live on athleticism. Manning is a far, far, far better pro than Woodson, because of work ethic and dedication and because Woodson couldn't just rely on athleticsm. My problem with that year was that the "better college football player" argument is not what it had been based on in years past even though it was supposed to be. It was just pulled out of some peoples a$$es so they could give it to Woodson. Had he never played any offense that year, he wouldn't have gotten it anyway, because it's basically a QB/RB award now.
 
#10
#10
Instead of saying the Heisman goes to "the best player in college football" they should just say it goes to "the QB or the RB, on one of the top five teams in the country, with the best stats."
 
#11
#11
mikey said:
Instead of saying the Heisman goes to "the best player in college football" they should just say it goes to "the QB or the RB, on one of the top five teams in the country, with the best stats."
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"Or on the single occasion where we do not like the quarterback, a defensive player on one of the usual teams"
 
#13
#13
mikey said:
Four reasons...Doug Flutie, Ty Detmer, Gino Toretta, Eddie George...the last one's when I quit paying attention to it. It's just a popularity contest.
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Exactly who should have won instead of Flutie and George?
 
#14
#14
hatvol96 said:
Exactly who should have won instead of Flutie and George?
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Don't you already know the answer to these questions Hat? Jerry Rice should have won over Flutie because he had a better pro career. Tommy Frazier should have won over Eddie George because the Heisman is not about who is going to be the better NFL prospect.

:crazy:
 
#15
#15
hatvol96 said:
Exactly who should have won instead of Flutie and George?
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Flutie..I won't argue vehemently against. Tommie Frazier was a better college player than Eddie George, though. The list could go on and on. Chuck Friggin Long only loses to BO JACKSON by a hair...Gino Toretta over Marshall Faulk...Ty Detmer over Rocket Ismail...Danny Wuerffel was perfect for Spurrier's system and had a great year, but "the best player in college football"...I don't know about that. And where are the lineman, receivers and defensive players? Ty Detmer a better college player than Steve Entman, Terrell Buckley and Carl Pickens...nope. Gino Toretta better than Lincoln Kennedy, Eric Curry, Marvin Jones (not to mention Faulk and Garrison Hearst). Wuerffel a better player than Orlando Pace? Not in this universe.
 
#16
#16
wow you guys are putting alot of thought into this.........Honestly i think they do a good job with the heisman......I mean bush definatly deserved last year, that dude was SICK(and i mean that in a good way) their has been a couple years (98) where players kind of got screwed but for the most part I think they do a good job
 
#17
#17
TennVols423 said:
wow you guys are putting alot of thought into this.........Honestly i think they do a good job with the heisman......I mean bush definatly deserved last year, that dude was SICK(and i mean that in a good way) their has been a couple years (98) where players kind of got screwed but for the most part I think they do a good job
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I agree with last year. I think you could make an argument for Young, but I'd have gone with Bush. Why '98? Ricky Williams over Michael Bishop?
 
#20
#20
mikey said:
Flutie..I won't argue vehemently against. Tommie Frazier was a better college player than Eddie George, though. The list could go on and on. Chuck Friggin Long only loses to BO JACKSON by a hair...Gino Toretta over Marshall Faulk...Ty Detmer over Rocket Ismail...Danny Wuerffel was perfect for Spurrier's system and had a great year, but "the best player in college football"...I don't know about that. And where are the lineman, receivers and defensive players? Ty Detmer a better college player than Steve Entman, Terrell Buckley and Carl Pickens...nope. Gino Toretta better than Lincoln Kennedy, Eric Curry, Marvin Jones (not to mention Faulk and Garrison Hearst). Wuerffel a better player than Orlando Pace? Not in this universe.
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Tommie Frazier shared snaps with Brooks Berringer. I'll let that speak for itself.
 
#21
#21
i know but im only 21 dude, dont get me wrong i love collegefootball but i only know what i can remember (i dont study it) yes i know the basic, i know of the greats in college football the great teams of college past but as far the heisman goes i think i can only remember back to 95
 
#22
#22
hatvol96 said:
Tommie Frazier shared snaps with Brooks Berringer. I'll let that speak for itself.
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They had two different packages for them. Tommie Frazier could have played QB, RB, WR, DB...probably even some Will LB...gimme a break. :BANGHEAD2:
 
#23
#23
mikey said:
They had two different packages for them. Tommie Frazier could have played QB, RB, WR, DB...probably even some Will LB...gimme a break. :BANGHEAD2:
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Hmm... Versatility as an argument. It seems when that was used in '97 most UT fans rejected it.
 
#24
#24
mikey said:
They had two different packages for them. Tommie Frazier could have played QB, RB, WR, DB...probably even some Will LB...gimme a break. :BANGHEAD2:
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He could have. He didn't. Charles Woodson, on the other hand, made huge plays in all three phases of the game against big time opponents.
 
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