Why the Heisman Trophy is Horse----

#28
#28
volinasheville said:
See Pickens, Carl
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:lolabove:
Look...I might get shelled here, but I don't really disagree with the 97 choice. I'm kind of a purist when it comes to this. The trophy is supposed to go to "the best player in college football". That's the only criterion. Why do we always have to measure everything with stats and wins ? Make a gut feeling. You can't hold it against Tommie Frazier for doing what was best for his team and thereby giving up some stats. When he was at QB...he was a better player than George. When he was at WR...he was a better player than George. That's no knock on George, but Frazier was a great college football player.
 
#29
#29
I also tore a calf muscle over the weekend and have been taking some pain pills if that excuse is any better. If not, I got two words for ya
 
#30
#30
hatvol96 said:
Hmm... Versatility as an argument. It seems when that was used in '97 most UT fans rejected it.
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as someone who really got turned off the Heisman in 97...all i can say to that is....very good point.
 
#33
#33
It's funny how many threads are created about how people HATE the Heisman ... yet they devote the time and attention to talk about it on a message board.

I like the Heisman as rewarding a GREAT college player, even if sometimes they don't pick the GREATEST of the GREAT.
 
#35
#35
mikey said:
IF...you base it on stats and "he's good for the game", then yes...but overall, he wasn't a "better college football player" than Woodson. I say that because, in college, guys can still live on athleticism. Manning is a far, far, far better pro than Woodson, because of work ethic and dedication and because Woodson couldn't just rely on athleticsm. My problem with that year was that the "better college football player" argument is not what it had been based on in years past even though it was supposed to be. It was just pulled out of some peoples a$$es so they could give it to Woodson. Had he never played any offense that year, he wouldn't have gotten it anyway, because it's basically a QB/RB award now.
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If I'm not mistaken...and I very well could be...Champ Baileys' stats @ georgia the year after Woodson won it were better on the O & D side, but he was'nt backed or even talked about by the ESPN machine.
 
#36
#36
volbreaker said:
If I'm not mistaken...and I very well could be...Champ Baileys' stats @ georgia the year after Woodson won it were better on the O & D side, but he was'nt backed or even talked about by the ESPN machine.
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Did Georgia win a National Title in '98? No. What did Bailey do to defeat Tennessee in '98? Nothing.
 
#37
#37
hatvol96 said:
Did Georgia win a National Title in '98? No. What did Bailey do to defeat Tennessee in '98? Nothing.
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I forgot the NC was a prerequisite Hate. I was under the mistaken assumption that it was for the best college FB player(not that Bailey was.....but, nor was Woodson)
 
#38
#38
volbreaker said:
I forgot the NC was a prerequisite Hate. I was under the mistaken assumption that it was for the best college FB player(not that Bailey was.....but, nor was Woodson)
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1. Woodson was the best college player in '97.
2. Whether it should have or not, team success has become a prerequisite for Heisman consideration.
 
#39
#39
it USED to be about the best player, but somewhere along the way, it got turned in to the best player on the best team award...if you are a stand out player on a team that is nationally ranked in the top 10 and you win your confl or are a NT contender, your likely to be invited to NY....that wasn't always the case....it is now.

and there's some credance to that....if you are a stand out player on a really good team, chances are you are a pretty good football player...

big games also come in to play...what do you do against the best competiton? or are you stat padding against ULL every week?

In almost each and every heisman winner's winning year, there was a signature moment in a big game that was like the cherry on top....didn't necessarily need that moment to prove you were a great player, but it's one of those moments that puts an exclamaiton mark on the end of the statement.

Doug Flutie against Miami
Reggie bush against Fresno St
Desmond Howard against ND
the Rocket against Michigan
Danny Weurfel against FSU and TN
Woodson against OSU
Eddie George against Michigan
Matt Leinart against ND

Just to name a few...i still don't like it...but for the most part it's fairly consistent.
 
#40
#40
jakez4ut said:
it USED to be about the best player, but somewhere along the way, it got turned in to the best player on the best team award...if you are a stand out player on a team that is nationally ranked in the top 10 and you win your confl or are a NT contender, your likely to be invited to NY....that wasn't always the case....it is now.

and there's some credance to that....if you are a stand out player on a really good team, chances are you are a pretty good football player...

big games also come in to play...what do you do against the best competiton? or are you stat padding against ULL every week?

In almost each and every heisman winner's winning year, there was a signature moment in a big game that was like the cherry on top....didn't necessarily need that moment to prove you were a great player, but it's one of those moments that puts an exclamaiton mark on the end of the statement.

Doug Flutie against Miami
Reggie bush against Fresno St
Desmond Howard against ND
the Rocket against Michigan
Danny Weurfel against FSU and TN
Woodson against OSU
Eddie George against Michigan
Matt Leinart against ND

Just to name a few...i still don't like it...but for the most part it's fairly consistent.
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Don't rip ULL. I'm going to watch them play Florida Atlantic tomorrow night.
 
#42
#42
hatvol96 said:
Don't rip ULL. I'm going to watch them play Florida Atlantic tomorrow night.
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LOL...my boss's son went to school there and is now the Asst. SID at Marshall...it was just the first thing that popped in my head.........:p
 
#45
#45
hatvol96 said:
Edge and RKO did a classic parody of DX last night. It was great stuff.
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i was watching the joke of a football game. i usually end up watching football and Raw, and switching back and forth between commercials and forgeting that Raw is on.

i met RKO once. he was huge. hell, most of the guys i've met are huge, but RKO stood out.
 
#47
#47
VolinArizona said:
It's funny how many threads are created about how people HATE the Heisman ... yet they devote the time and attention to talk about it on a message board.

I like the Heisman as rewarding a GREAT college player, even if sometimes they don't pick the GREATEST of the GREAT.
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So let's give the National Championship to the second or third best team this year and just say we're celebrating a great team even if they aren't the greatest of the great.
 
#48
#48
hatvol96 said:
Did Georgia win a National Title in '98? No. What did Bailey do to defeat Tennessee in '98? Nothing.
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How about you call Paul Hornung and get his trophy back. Tell him even though he was the best player, his team $ucked and he can't have it.
 
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