wikileaks and CIA

#201
#201
volprof said:
I've got roughly 8,000 years of recorded human history that suggests you're wrong, but maybe this time around it will all work out differently.
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You're crediting government with progress. Progress occurs in spite of government
 
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#202
#202
volprof said:
I've got roughly 8,000 years of recorded human history that suggests you're wrong, but maybe this time around it will all work out differently.
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Total bull****. 8000 years of government failure retarding mankind and committing genocide.

Nobody can kill and deny rights on the scale that government does.
 
#203
#203
Burger said:
Agreed. Add the EPA, IRS, the Federal Reserve, NSA to the things that need to go.

I also think Ron Paul is correct about the next major financial crisis.
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Some of you want to have to wear mask like in China and die 20 years earlier from pollution while making pennies compared to what you make today. There is a reason our forefathers fought to have some of the entities established and regulations put in place.
 
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#205
#205
Danl said:
In the absence of the CIA and NSA, what makes you think the other "15" agencies would be any better?

Define "state sponsor of terror".
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So because the other 15 can't do it "better", we should have 17 doing it poorly?
 
#206
#206
k-town_king said:
Some of you want to have to wear mask like in China and die 20 years earlier from pollution while making pennies compared to what you make today. There is a reason our forefathers fought to have some of the entities established and regulations put in place.
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Nobody wants to breathe dirty air or drink dirty water. There can be an argument made that at one time, we may have needed an organization to address environmental issues. However, the EPA has taken it way too far. They either need to be dialed down a few notches or removed.
 
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#207
#207
k-town_king said:
Some of you want to have to wear mask like in China and die 20 years earlier from pollution while making pennies compared to what you make today. There is a reason our forefathers fought to have some of the entities established and regulations put in place.
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We don't need the EPA for that. If a local business is harming you, take them to court, don't buy their products, organize others to help. Stop expecting government to do everything for you.
 
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#208
#208
k-town_king said:
Some of you want to have to wear mask like in China and die 20 years earlier from pollution while making pennies compared to what you make today. There is a reason our forefathers fought to have some of the entities established and regulations put in place.
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I do just fine with dirty air and water. I cut my teeth on both. We had cut our water with a knife and fork back when I grew up. The hard part was having to take the gas mask off to put food in your mouth. Then, the liberals came along and cleaned it up. Most of us liked it better when only the strong survived.
 
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#209
#209
k-town_king said:
Some of you want to have to wear mask like in China and die 20 years earlier from pollution while making pennies compared to what you make today. There is a reason our forefathers fought to have some of the entities established and regulations put in place.
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Your exaggerations are entertaining.
 
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#210
#210
n_huffhines said:
Total bull****. 8000 years of government failure retarding mankind and committing genocide.

Nobody can kill and deny rights on the scale that government does.
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I've never claimed governments don't kill people en masse.

I just prefer them, generally speaking, to anarchy.

If I wanted to live in the Old West, in 1990s Russia, or in today's Syria, I'd been a libertarian anarchist.
 
#211
#211
volprof said:
I've never claimed governments don't kill people en masse.

I just prefer them, generally speaking, to anarchy.

If I wanted to live in the Old West, in 1990s Russia, or in today's Syria, I'd been a libertarian anarchist.
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Isn't Syria an example of why we don't want such powerful governments?
 
#213
#213
Vol8188 said:
Isn't Syria an example of why we don't want such powerful governments?
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Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, granted, but I'd still take Assad, as bad as he is, over the power vacuum - anarchy - that exists there today.

This in no shape or form is a defense of Assad, dictatorship, or authoritarianism, nor is it an invective against those who seek to overcome oppression. It is merely an observation.
 
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#214
#214
volprof said:
Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, granted, but I'd still take Assad, as bad as he is, over the power vacuum - anarchy - that exists there today.

This in no shape or form is a defense of Assad, dictatorship, or authoritarianism, nor is it an invective against those who seek to overcome oppression. It is merely an observation.
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Perhaps if Syrian citizens had been armed things would've turned out better for them. But to claim it's an example of "anarchy" is absurd. If anything it's an example of why we should limit powers of government.
 
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#215
#215
Vol8188 said:
We don't need the EPA for that. If a local business is harming you, take them to court, don't buy their products, organize others to help. Stop expecting government to do everything for you.
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Don't even have to go that far. Every state has an environmental agency so no need to duplicate at the federal level.
 
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#216
#216
pretty much all of our government agencies need to be toned down by 80%. too big of budget allows for scope creep.

the problem with any effective IC is that it needs to be relatively not interfered with, otherwise you compromise their effectiveness. and if they are any good you can bet you bottom dollar they are getting away with stuff. no way around that. as long as other nations have theirs we need powerful IC of our own, how do you monitor an all powerful IC? with something even more powerful? that never works out.
 
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#217
#217
LouderVol said:
pretty much all of our government agencies need to be toned down by 80%. too big of budget allows for scope creep.

the problem with any effective IC is that it needs to be relatively not interfered with, otherwise you compromise their effectiveness. and if they are any good you can bet you bottom dollar they are getting away with stuff. no way around that. as long as other nations have theirs we need powerful IC of our own, how do you monitor an all powerful IC? with something even more powerful? that never works out.
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Hell has frozen over and water catches fire I agree with louder.
 

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#218
#218
n_huffhines said:
So because the other 15 can't do it "better", we should have 17 doing it poorly?
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Be careful not to state my position when I haven't or to build a strawman.

If one wants to get rid of 2 federal spy agencies but not the other "15", I question why.

I also asked for a definition of a term that a poster used. I haven't gotten an answer to that either.

Maybe another question is do we need a spy agency at all. And if we do, should that agency be politically independent from the military and the executive and the legislative branches?
 
#219
#219
Danl said:
Be careful not to state my position when I haven't or to build a strawman.

If one wants to get rid of 2 federal spy agencies but not the other "15", I question why.

I also asked for a definition of a term that a poster used. I haven't gotten an answer to that either.

Maybe another question is do we need a spy agency at all. And if we do, should that agency be politically independent from the military and the executive and the legislative branches?
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LOL, I would say the CIA is about as independent of Congress or the executive branch as you could get right now. They answer to no one.
 
#220
#220
Rasputin_Vol said:
LOL, I would say the CIA is about as independent of Congress or the executive branch as you could get right now. They answer to no one.
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That's right.

I was asking if that arrangement is the proper construct for, at least one, federal spy agency.
 
#221
#221
Vol8188 said:
We don't need the EPA for that. If a local business is harming you, take them to court, don't buy their products, organize others to help. Stop expecting government to do everything for you.
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This statement is beyond ignorant....you need to borrow some of Huff's books and read up on things like Love Canal and Times Beach.
 
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#222
#222
Take it for what it's worth, but this is an article by a former Wikileaker about Russia's connection to Wikileaks:

https://patribotics.wordpress.com/2...-is-connected-to-russia-despite-their-claims/

Also, when pressed about citing the actual documents to the claims about the intent of the CIA to simulate Russian cyberops and intelligence actions, Wikileaks cannot do it. It's only in the summary they provide. Actual documents say nothing of the sort:

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/08...acking-code-to-save-time-not-to-frame-russia/

Anyhow, none of that matters now, as the dominant narrative (the CIA can simulate Russian false flags) will remain, further throwing in question the rulings of US investigators once the hammer comes down on the fake American president.

On a sidenote, I've never quite understood some Americans' obsession with the "evil CIA." If there is one intelligence agency you have to fear, assuming that's the case, I'd say it's more likely to be the FBI. But I guess the FBI isn't "sexy" enough for the average American who watches way too many movies.
 
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#223
#223
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#224
#224
 
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#225
#225
Vol8188 said:
I've never advocated for eliminating the court system. Only for eliminating the EPA
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Would you rather have a two headed child born with cancer and then try and sue some company that went bankrupt and closed 10 years ago that polluted the hell out of the ground where you bought a home five years ago or ...... would you rather have clean ground?
 
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