Will Heupel stay loyal to his buddies or make the changes necessary for continued progress?

#76
#76
allvols4life said:
Elarbee, Halzle and Martinez are liabilities at best. Will Hbc's loyalty to long time staffers cause stagnation of progress?
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This is the central question. As I’ve looked at his career, I can’t find one instance of him actually firing an assistant. It’s likely a few have taken better jobs along the way. Maybe he’s encouraged some to find greener pastures. Apparently, he treasures staff continuity, even if some assistants aren’t performing at a minimum level.

If he wants to stay here, he needs to break everything around him and rebuild from the ground up—coaching staff, player development, recruiting and milking the portal at an elite level, etc. I like him and he’s the best since Fulmer, no doubt. But I see no reason to believe he’s a championship coach who can take us to the next level and compete for championships. If what we’ve seen so far is prologue, we’ll remain a second-tier program with a ceiling of 10-2 every year. Just my opinion.
 
#77
#77
I'm just glad we have people on here who can explain the concept of "good" vs "mediocre" teams week-in and week-out.
 
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#78
#78
bpalmer28 said:
Who knows? I have to believe Halzle is doing something that matters because he's getting paid $850k/year. If Heupel doesn't need him then that's even more of a reason to let him go. Just hire an analyst for $150k if that's the case and give the rest of the money to a WR in the portal.

Our offense is not going to look like we want it too until we get back to have elite players at receivers. In the past 10 years, the teams with the best WRs have been the most explosive. LSU with Chase and Jefferson.... Bama when they had Amari Cooper, Davonte Smith, Jameson Williams... Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith, Harrison Jr, Chris Olave.... Georgia with Bowers and McConkey... Tennessee with Tillman and Hyatt.

That's what it takes to have an ELITE offense, but we aren't even good. I just want to see us go from having a bad offense to a good offense. Just find way to put 24 points on the board against a good defense. Something we failed to do against 4 different opponents this year.
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Agreed- receiver is a glaring hole and I’m not sure the high school elites want to go somewhere that they just stand 3 feet from the sideline and are limited to 3-4 routes.

With us never changing our formation it’s nearly impossible to get creative or even call a good game offensively- the whole thing is set up by taking numbers out of the box- hope you can run it up in there well and then the safeties cheat.

If you can’t run the ball with 7 on 6 or 7 on 5 or your star rb gets hurt… they can just sit back since we don’t have enough time to run crossing concepts and have to keep rb and tight end in to block..

We HAVE to run different formations sometimes to even have a chance to get creative.
 
#79
#79
Hank Bukowski said:
This is the central question. As I’ve looked at his career, I can’t find one instance of him actually firing an assistant. It’s likely a few have taken better jobs along the way. Maybe he’s encouraged some to find greener pastures. Apparently, he treasures staff continuity, even if some assistants aren’t performing at a minimum level.

If he wants to stay here, he needs to break everything around him and rebuild from the ground up—coaching staff, player development, recruiting and milking the portal at an elite level, etc. I like him and he’s the best since Fulmer, no doubt. But I see no reason to believe he’s a championship coach who can take us to the next level and compete for championships. If what we’ve seen so far is prologue, we’ll remain a second-tier program with a ceiling of 10-2 every year. Just my opinion.
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It really isn't. It's a question that gets asked anytime something unfavorable happens.
 
#80
#80
FranklinVFL said:
All depends on his expectations for the team.

Is 10 wins with one ranked win avoiding most all of the rest of the top SEC teams the goal? Is getting smoked and completely embarrassed by a ranked team in the first round of the playoffs the goal?

Or is it to be competitive vs the best of the best and challenge teams in the CFP?

Do we just want to be relevant? Or do we want to be elite?

What is our goal? What is your goal?
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THIS.
 
#82
#82
VolJarhead said:
You folks amaze me. We are finally fielding a team that wins and we want to fire our way to success. I didn't like the hire of Heupel, but who would want our job back then? The guy has done great in giving the fans excitement and has shown he is successful. Let the guy do his job. If he feels like he needs to replace someone, it should be his choice. I think he has earned the right to steer the ship.

I wanted an offense that run up the gut every play for 4 to 5 yards from the power I and defenses that crushed everyone. I will never see that kind of running game, but it is interesting to watch. This is the first year our defense looked better than average and I've enjoyed the season. I didn't expect to win it all and most of you didn't either.
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You're right, I didn't expect to win it all. However, I did expect the team to rise to the occasion during postseason play instead of looking like a high school team that didn't belong. Also...

*I expected to maintain the intensity and fight we showed in smashing a top-25 ranked NC State team on a neutral field on September 7th, for the duration of the season.
*I expected not to give up a tying TD in Neyland Stadium to a 3-2 Florida team with an embattled head coach in the waning seconds and need OT to beat them.
*I expected not to score a grand total of 7 points over four consecutive games in the middle of the SEC schedule and need late rallies to win home games vs a non-Saban coached Alabama team that didn't make the playoffs and to hold off a Kentucky team that finished 4-8.
*I expected not to blow a 14-3 late in the 3rd quarter in Fayetteville, in a game where we were double-digit favorites and for our heralded QB to run out of bounds as the clock expired instead of throwing a pass to the endzone
*I expected to play better in the last three quarters at Georgia, and not get blitzed 31-7 during that time after such a promising start
*I expected to not let Vanderbilt jump out to a 14-0 lead in the first quarter before deciding to get serious about the game
*I expected our WR corps, including Bru McCoy and Squirrel White, to have improved over the course of the last two seasons under the tutelage of our coaching staff

To sum it up, I expected our team to play four quarters consistently and to be put in a position by the coaching staff to play up to their capabilities and for that staff to make necessary in-game adjustments to address deficiencies and put us in a better position to win over teams like Georgia and Ohio State. If these expectations are too high and it makes me a bad fan, so be it.
 
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#83
#83
After more thought, we just need to cheer on that these assistants get better. I do think Tim Banks has improved. Fulmer was the same way. We ran him off and you see the results.

We are what we are... I feel like Tennessee looks more like Fulmer Tennessee's teams than the Jones/Pruitt/Dooley garbage so that is an upgrade. However, we are never going to be what Alabama was under Saban or Georgia is under Kirby Smart even though that is what the fans want (mostly due to the fact that we get tired of hearing trash talk from these bases, notably Uncle Lou).

We need to hope for a 1998 type year were all the breaks go our way and their isn't teams out there like this Ohio State team we played Saturday night (or they choke enough games away that we don't see them). We were lucky to event get the title in 1998 because Fulmer would often get out coached by Spurrier or others.
 
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#84
#84
brockytop said:
Could definitely be wrong, but Danny White seems to me to be the kind of guy that sees trouble with the three double digit losses more so than the one nice win (Bama) and beating a bunch of mediocre to bad teams throughout the season (FL much better later in the year than when we played them). I believe he will have a serious conversation with Heupel about “where do we go from here with your current staff”?
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Agree. White and Josh need to clear their calendars and spend a week in a play by play review of our losses to Ga, OSU and Ark.
Forget our wins over the little sisters of the poor. Absorb how slow our dbs and receivers are. Watch our oline when faced with real competitors. If Josh is objective, he'll see that he needs to change who we recruit and how they are coached
 
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#85
#85
VolJarhead said:
You folks amaze me. We are finally fielding a team that wins and we want to fire our way to success. I didn't like the hire of Heupel, but who would want our job back then? The guy has done great in giving the fans excitement and has shown he is successful. Let the guy do his job. If he feels like he needs to replace someone, it should be his choice. I think he has earned the right to steer the ship.

I wanted an offense that run up the gut every play for 4 to 5 yards from the power I and defenses that crushed everyone. I will never see that kind of running game, but it is interesting to watch. This is the first year our defense looked better than average and I've enjoyed the season. I didn't expect to win it all and most of you didn't either.
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yep.......lot to be thankful for. We still could use some innovation but none of the staff seems to be stepping up. CJH doesn't strike me as a coach willing to infuse "new blood" into the staff. He's always promoted from within and it may be nearing becoming stale. Ryan Day and the buckeyes hired Chip Kelly as OC this year. How many former head coaches did Saban hire? Surround yourself with proven winners seems to be a good way to go.
Most of us thought 8-4 would be a good year with an unproven QB. I think overall UT exceeded expectations this year yet there is a lot of negativism in our fanbase. I'd like to think our AD would recommend some potential upgrades to our head coach. It was rumored that OSU spent double what we did on NIL. IMO we could use at least 3 coaching changes, OLine, receivers, and Defensive backs. We need top of the line linebackers and offensive linemen and a big time wide receiver. These days, simply put, put up the cash. Bama ask it's fans for donations. Don't we already do that with Spyre ? I think it'll work out but our coach could be stubborn.
 
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#86
#86
#88
#88
onthehill71 said:
Agree. White and Josh need to clear their calendars and spend a week in a play by play review of our losses to Ga, OSU and Ark.
Forget our wins over the little sisters of the poor. Absorb how slow our dbs and receivers are. Watch our oline when faced with real competitors. If Josh is objective, he'll see that he needs to change who we recruit and how they are coached
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good point and one more thing that perplexes me. How da hell does the UT football team seem to play bad after a bye week or the recent lay-off prior to this play-off game? This shouldn't be the norm but I witnessed it 3 times this year. This team isn't spending it's time wisely and it needs to be addressed. IMO this is a root of problem that needs to be solved and eliminated.
 
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#89
#89
FranklinVFL said:
All depends on his expectations for the team.

Is 10 wins with one ranked win avoiding most all of the rest of the top SEC teams the goal? Is getting smoked and completely embarrassed by a ranked team in the first round of the playoffs the goal?

Or is it to be competitive vs the best of the best and challenge teams in the CFP?

Do we just want to be relevant? Or do we want to be elite?

What is our goal? What is your goal?
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SEC scheduling out of our control.
SEC opponent schedule results out of our control.
They won 10 games and made the playoff.
If this weighs so much on you in your personal life, you need a new one.
If you think we've never been smoked on the national stage before, or never will be again, either in conference or post season, you live a different life. It happens. For everything UGA is, they still got smoked at Ole Miss. Post season games generally go that direction more times than not.

There are plenty of elite contenders at the top. UT will be one of them. They do not all get past Round 1. Same team doesn't win every year. By and large SEC teams have the greater chance of winning a natty and have proven that over the duration of the 4 team format. But, if we are good enough to get in the playoff more years than not, we will have plenty of chances to make a run now with the new format. Take this OSU program for instance. THey have been in the playoffs 6 times since the start of the 4 team format plus this year. They have one natty to show for it. Once they were throttled by Clemson 31-0. Once by Bama 52-24 for the title loss. Beat by Clemson a 2nd time by 4. In 2022 GA throttled a Saban Bama for the title. In 2019 Clemson throttled a Saban Bama badly. In 2019/2020 LSU beat Clemson handily. It's not uncommon for playoff games and title games in the CFP era to get rather lopsided. It happens regularly.
 
#90
#90
tbones0711 said:
good point and one more thing that perplexes me. How da hell does the UT football team seem to play bad after a bye week or the recent lay-off prior to this play-off game? This shouldn't be the norm but I witnessed it 3 times this year. This team isn't spending it's time wisely and it needs to be addressed. IMO this is a root of problem that needs to be solved and eliminated.
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One of the few valid questions post smack down I've seen. Keen observation.
 
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#91
#91
VolCalls said:
You're right, I didn't expect to win it all. However, I did expect the team to rise to the occasion during postseason play instead of looking like a high school team that didn't belong. Also...

*I expected to maintain the intensity and fight we showed in smashing a top-25 ranked NC State team on a neutral field on September 7th, for the duration of the season.
*I expected not to give up a tying TD in Neyland Stadium to a 3-2 Florida team with an embattled head coach in the waning seconds and need OT to beat them.
*I expected not to score a grand total of 7 points over four consecutive games in the middle of the SEC schedule and need late rallies to win home games vs a non-Saban coached Alabama team that didn't make the playoffs and to hold off a Kentucky team that finished 4-8.
*I expected not to blow a 14-3 late in the 3rd quarter in Fayetteville, in a game where we were double-digit favorites and for our heralded QB to run out of bounds as the clock expired instead of throwing a pass to the endzone
*I expected to play better in the last three quarters at Georgia, and not get blitzed 31-7 during that time after such a promising start
*I expected to not let Vanderbilt jump out to a 14-0 lead in the first quarter before deciding to get serious about the game
*I expected our WR corps, including Bru McCoy and Squirrel White, to have improved over the course of the last two seasons under the tutelage of our coaching staff

To sum it up, I expected our team to play four quarters consistently and to be put in a position by the coaching staff to play up to their capabilities and for that staff to make necessary in-game adjustments to address deficiencies and put us in a better position to win over teams like Georgia and Ohio State. If these expectations are too high and it makes me a bad fan, so be it.
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I bet Bama fans had the same analogy when Clemson beat Saban 44-19 in 2018/2019 for the Natty, or 33-18 by UGA. Teams getting throttled in the playoffs is rather common. Need to look up all those CFP games. Even OSU got throttled a couple times in these games. But, they all got titles cause they kept getting there. Point is to get in on the regular now with 12 teams, or more to come maybe. Then good things will happen. And occasionally, you will still get throttled. But, you will always be in the top 12 of the P4 cause you keep getting in.
 
#94
#94
GVF said:
SEC scheduling out of our control.
SEC opponent schedule results out of our control.
They won 10 games and made the playoff.
If this weighs so much on you in your personal life, you need a new one.
If you think we've never been smoked on the national stage before, or never will be again, either in conference or post season, you live a different life. It happens. For everything UGA is, they still got smoked at Ole Miss. Post season games generally go that direction more times than not.

There are plenty of elite contenders at the top. UT will be one of them. They do not all get past Round 1. Same team doesn't win every year. By and large SEC teams have the greater chance of winning a natty and have proven that over the duration of the 4 team format. But, if we are good enough to get in the playoff more years than not, we will have plenty of chances to make a run now with the new format. Take this OSU program for instance. THey have been in the playoffs 6 times since the start of the 4 team format plus this year. They have one natty to show for it. Once they were throttled by Clemson 31-0. Once by Bama 52-24 for the title loss. Beat by Clemson a 2nd time by 4. In 2022 GA throttled a Saban Bama for the title. In 2019 Clemson throttled a Saban Bama badly. In 2019/2020 LSU beat Clemson handily. It's not uncommon for playoff games and title games in the CFP era to get rather lopsided. It happens regularly.
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So, I quit reading after the whole "you need to get a new life" statement. My history is that I never get involved in this type banter, but you just want to cross a line, then fine....

1. You do not know me and you do not know my life....so just shut that down right now. Your ignorance of me is showing through...better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

2. In case you did not realize, I was not slamming our team or their results this year....simply providing an opinion in a fan forum asking questions regarding what is the "goal" of Tennessee football---that was it..is it to be relevant or elite....

3. Looking back at my response to you....there was no name calling, no attack on you or anything. Just asked a question...your response on my life quality was completely unwarranted.

4. My life is pretty doggone good. I woke up Sunday morning, went to church, went to lunch with my grandkids, and now am enjoying some time getting ready to take the grandkids out to Chuck E. Cheese....so just step back from the ledge. Not everyone asking a question is attacking your view....

The current coaching staff has gotten us to this point...the question now remains can they get us to the next level, or do we need any upgrades anywhere based on past performance?

Does their past performance have us believe they can get us to elite status? That was all I asked.
 
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#95
#95
We should all appreciate everything that Josh Heupel has done for this program. But in my opinion, people need to temper their expectations and realize that he is currently over achieving based on his resume as a coach. His numbers in his past coaching positions say as much.

CJH is a good, solid coach. There is no denying that. In four short years he's brought us from the cellar of the SEC, and the country for that matter, to being consistently ranked inside the top 12 and playing in our first CFP game. That hasn't been an easy task, especially with recruiting restrictions from the epic disaster that was the Philip Fulmer/Jeremy Pruitt fiasco. It takes a good coach to do that. But, there's a discernable pattern with Josh Heupel...he starts strong, peaks early, and then ultimately and quite unfortunately fades as the years progress.

At Oklahoma, he started out doing well as their QB coach and offensive coordinator...until he didn't. He was let go after an 8-5 season at the end of year 4 from the program in which he won a National Championship. His offense regressed over 4 years all while Oklahoma was pulling in top recruiting classes.🤔 Was it a fluke? Did they give him enough time? Too many injuries? Did the recruits not understand or buy into the system? Or, did the Big 12 figure out how to stymie his "high powered" offense after being on film and defensive coordinators getting to prepare for it after a couple of years of seeing it first hand? Sounds kind of familiar.

Okay, no worries. He has a couple of stops at Utah State and Missouri and is...average. Not bad, but nothing to raise any eyebrows.

In 2017 he took over a UCF team from Scott Frost who had just went 13-0 and beat Auburn in the Peach Bowl ranked #6 in the country. He took an undefeated AAC Champion UCF team back to a 6-4 record in 3 years.🤔Again, fluke? Did the Covid year in 2019 play more of a factor that what we think? Maybe, but the numbers don't lie; the team regressed from when he took over.

But his winning percentage has gone up here at UT, you say. You are correct, and again, he should be commended for a job well done. Realistically, Tennessee had nowhere to go but up from an abysmal rock bottom 3 win season. We really were on life support when he got here.

I honestly thought that Tennessee would go 7-5 this year. My reasoning for that was nothing other than Heupel's own history when playing a major coaching roll in a program. I was wrong, and to Heupel's credit, we ended up 10-2 and in the CFP. I'll say it again, I WAS WRONG. However, if you're honest with yourself, you know that we were a couple of plays away from that 7-5 record I alluded to. OU, Florida, and Alabama were all wins that could have easily went the other way. Again, to Heupel's credit, we would've been on the losing end of those games in years past. So, was winning those types of games a sign of Heupel's progress as a coach? Man, I sure wanted to believe that; then Saturday night happened.

The way this team and coaching staff were completely dominated in every facet of the game was sobering. The fact that they had 3 weeks to prepare for getting their teeth kicked in doesn't bode well for things to come if he's not willing to change the status quo. We looked lost, like we didn't belong on the same field. Truth be told, we didn't. I understand loyalty. I understand and respect rewarding people who work hard, but college football is a dog eat dog world. Just like the players who hit the portal, loyalty be damned! You either go out and get the best support staff you can find, or continue to be content as a pretty good, but far from great program.

Heupel should be appreciated for what he's done in a few short years on the hill. He brought us out of the wilderness and has us being relevant again in college football, but temper your expectations...I think you're witnessing absolute peak Josh Heupel at Tennessee right now. Nothing about his record tells me he has the coaching acumen to reach the upper echelon of the elites in college football.

He's a really good coach...really good. But there's light years difference between really good coaches and elite championship winning coaches.
 
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#99
#99
FranklinVFL said:
Does White have it in him to tell Huep he needs to make the changes?
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This is also the issue. Danny White and Josh Heupel are friends and White is good at being an AD. He's done really well at UT.

If we look at Danny's Dad, also an AD, he had a good career at ND then Duke, but not an elite AD career (I'll grant Duke is an elite b-ball school but that was built in.)

Danny and Josh have a good thing going. Our athletic dept is doing well and the football turnaround is fabulous. Does he feel the need to press for a top 5 or CFP trophy?

It would be damn hard to replace either of them if we have average 9-10 wins a year in football.
 
#100
#100
I recommend Tom Laundry as OC, Vince Lombardi as DC, Raymond Berry as WR coach, Dick Butkus as LIB coach, Roger Staubach as QB coach, and Herb Adderley as DB coach.
 
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