Workers are applying for jobs left and right, but hearing nothing back

#501
#501
NorthDallas40 said:
An absolute complete misrepresentation of what is being said and I’ve stated that clearly in the posts you’ve replied to. Do better with that broad brush.
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We're going in circles now. So I will just close with this, hopefully. The original "misrepresentation" was done at the very beginning with a simple (if you want to call it "imprecise", fine) sentence. From here, it seemed like all hell broke loose.

However, the person working in shipping is just as valuable to the organization as anyone else is.
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#502
#502
Rasputin_Vol said:
We're going in circles now. So I will just close with this, hopefully. The original "misrepresentation" was done at the very beginning with a simple (if you want to call it "imprecise", fine) sentence. From here, it seemed like all hell broke loose.
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I disagree with how you stated the quote but I do agree all employees have value to a company and a company should respect and value their employees. And disagreement is fine.

But I still love ya Ras! Mean it! ☺️
 
#503
#503
NorthDallas40 said:
Hey @Rasputin_Vol and @DonjoVol i want to correct something. In the post above on the bolded I used imprecise terminology. I should have said “…is a correct and respectful statement…” thus I want to clarify myself.

See how that works? 😬
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I'm not a grammar Nazi or that triggered as much on semantics in a message board because I can read and comprehend enough to understand people's general ideas. It is an imperfect and "imprecise" medium. In the heat of back and forth discussion, there are going to be reasonable misunderstandings every now and then. @DonjoVol comment wasn't one that I didn't think would be classified as unclear, especially within the context of his previous posts.
 
#504
#504
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not a grammar Nazi or that triggered as much on semantics in a message board because I can read and comprehend enough to understand people's general ideas. It is an imperfect and "imprecise" medium. In the heat of back and forth discussion, there are going to be reasonable misunderstandings every now and then. @DonjoVol comment wasn't one that I didn't think would be classified as unclear, especially within the context of his previous posts.
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Why do you think I’m triggered? Have we not had a level headed exchange? Also I thought we were done and hugged it out?
 
#505
#505
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not a grammar Nazi or that triggered as much on semantics in a message board because I can read and comprehend enough to understand people's general ideas. It is an imperfect and "imprecise" medium. In the heat of back and forth discussion, there are going to be reasonable misunderstandings every now and then. @DonjoVol comment wasn't one that I didn't think would be classified as unclear, especially within the context of his previous posts.
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You just can't help but continue to try to spin people's statements. The reason that this thread has dragged on forever is not the original statement. The reason is that when challenged on that statement, neither you nor DonjoVol will concede to the economic fact that if the total compensation of all employees in a company is not equal, then that company does not equally value all employees. Both of you prefer to use some liberal, touchy-feely, fuzzy amorphous definition of "value" so that you can feel good about yourselves. EVERYONE on this thread agrees that all employees should be treated with dignity and respect and appreciated for their contributions to an organization.

However, some of us acknowledge economic reality. Here is one final chance for you and DonjoVol to do so. Simply respond and answer yes or no to the following statement:

I agree that if the total compensation of all employees in a company is not equal, then that company does not equally value all employees.
 
#506
#506
Vol423 said:
It's hilarious to hear stuff like this from you and Rasputin_Vol, while you call those of us that understand the basic economic truth that all employees are not equally valued by companies "triggered". Will someone please come bubble-wrap DonjoVol, give him a support animal, and read him lullabies all day so he doesn't hear someone say something factual that might hurt his delicate feelings?

The younger generations in this country today are fragile creatures that believe that being politically correct and bankrupting our country's future in the name of climate change are the most important challenges our country faces. We, as a nation, are going to be absolutely devoured by the Chinese over the next 40-50 years because we have allowed the liberal left to brainwash our kids.
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You are really quite the character. Seems like your feelings are hurt by people simply starting that certain positions should be paid more in today's economy. You obviously have a lot of disdain and disrespect towards working class people. Perhaps, you should do some soul searching this afternoon as to why that's the case.

You get triggered just as much as these leftists and democrats do.
 
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#507
#507
NorthDallas40 said:
I disagree with how you stated the quote but I do agree all employees have value to a company and a company should respect and value their employees. And disagreement is fine.

But I still love ya Ras! Mean it! ☺️
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I want to state for the record that I hold no personal ill-will against either Rasputin_Vol or DonjoVol as a result of this continual back and forth. I don't recall ever having issues with Ras in other threads in the past, and I'm not aware of any strong disagreements with DonjoVol either.

I find it very troublesome that our educational system is teaching America's youth to completely disavow basic economic truths and instead embrace political correctness, amorphous terms with no real functional definition, and political policies that have no bearing in economic reality. These are all attempts to continually slide the "new normal" in American politics continuously left. That is why I have continued to try to press both Rasputin_Vol and DonjoVol to admit to the economic reality of the situation.
 
#508
#508
Vol423 said:
I want to state for the record that I hold no personal ill-will against either Rasputin_Vol or DonjoVol as a result of this continual back and forth. I don't recall ever having issues with Ras in other threads in the past, and I'm not aware of any strong disagreements with DonjoVol either.

I find it very troublesome that our educational system is teaching America's youth to completely disavow basic economic truths and instead embrace political correctness, amorphous terms with no real functional definition, and political policies that have no bearing in economic reality. These are all attempts to continually slide the "new normal" in American politics continuously left. That is why I have continued to try to press both Rasputin_Vol and DonjoVol to admit to the economic reality of the situation.
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Honestly at this point I think we should all just de escalate and hug it out. People are dug in and aren’t going to relent.
 
#509
#509
DonjoVol said:
You are really quite the character. Seems like your feelings are hurt by people simply starting that certain positions should be paid more in today's economy. You obviously have a lot of disdain and disrespect towards working class people. Perhaps, you should do some soul searching this afternoon as to why that's the case.

You get triggered just as much as these leftists and democrats do.
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Once again, I haven't addressed that at all in any of my posts. What I have said repeatedly is that all employees should be treated with dignity and respect and appreciated for their contributions to an organization. The only persons here trying to assassinate anyone's character are you and Rasputin_Vol, who have consistently attributed thoughts and statements to me that I have never thought or written.
 
#511
#511
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not you specifically because you kind of got in the discussion late. I'm speaking in general to the people that originally responded to his post.
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Ok good. But, and I’m not trying to keep picking at a scab, your comment was rather broad and it was reasonable to infer you lumped me in the collective “you people”. I’m glad you agree our exchange has been level headed while we didn’t reach full consensus. Working as intended 🤷‍♂️
 
#512
#512
Vol423 said:
You just can't help but continue to try to spin people's statements. The reason that this thread has dragged on forever is not the original statement. The reason is that when challenged on that statement, neither you nor DonjoVol will concede to the economic fact that if the total compensation of all employees in a company is not equal, then that company does not equally value all employees. Both of you prefer to use some liberal, touchy-feely, fuzzy amorphous definition of "value" so that you can feel good about yourselves. EVERYONE on this thread agrees that all employees should be treated with dignity and respect and appreciated for their contributions to an organization.
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I did address those points in posts #430, 434, 443 and 477. I don't think anyone can disagree that different people within a company are paid more depending on their skill level or production.

But that wasn't the point being made in the original post. He was simply offering a suggestion of maybe paying he guys on the low end a bit more... and then followed that up with saying that each employee is just as "valuable" as anyone else, and you guys took it to be syndicalist rantings.
 
#513
#513
Rasputin_Vol said:
How long can you run a restaurant without a "full time" dishwasher? I put "full time" in quotes because you can cycle in cooks or servers to do that job every now and then to do the job, but how long do you think you can do that?
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I dont know it depends on a lot of things. How full is the restaurant on a given night, how many nights a weeks is it packed? How many servers and other positions are there to be able to fill in said position? Etc.... TBH based on where I was and what I've seen personally quite a while.
 
#514
#514
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok good. But, and I’m not trying to keep picking at a scab, your comment was rather broad and it was reasonable to infer you lumped me in the collective “you people”. I’m glad you agree our exchange has been level headed while we didn’t reach full consensus. Working as intended 🤷‍♂️
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Looking back in the thread, I did lump you in there when you first jumped in, but I think we are on the same page. My apologies.
 
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#515
#515
DonjoVol said:
If someone has already been there a few years and is a good employee who does a good job then why not take care of that person while he's already there. That's part of the point I've been trying to make.

And no I don't think paying people more at the bottom deincentivizes people in any way. Plus you can't move everyone up and some people honestly have no desire to move up. So find the ones who are good employees and who want to stay and take care of them while they are already there.
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Because you're opening up a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. If you bring in a new employee at $12, and your old employee makes $11. Now you have two employees A and B, they started at the same time and do the same job, A is an excellent worker, B is not. They both come to you for equal raises. Are you going to give both the same amount of money? Are you going to tell B that A is more deserving than them so A gets more money and they're on the bottom? Are you going to tell A that since they started at the same time they are getting the same raise?
 
#516
#516
mr.checkerboards said:
I dont know it depends on a lot of things. How full is the restaurant on a given night, how many nights a weeks is it packed? How many servers and other positions are there to be able to fill in said position? Etc.... TBH based on where I was and what I've seen personally quite a while.
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And how long will the cooks and servers then be saying "Look, I'm doing these extra duties outside of my original job. I need to be compensated more."?

You see? They are not going to escape the labor/wage issue or disgruntled employees in either situation. If you hire a dishwasher at higher than some of your older staff, then you have a problem. If you have people filling in on that job from time to time and expect them to also do their regular jobs, then you have an issue. Oh, and not to mention, if you have people splitting duties or adding more to their plates, don't you think their performance in their regular position will suffer? Tables may have longer wait times because dishes are not available or either a cook or a server has to get the dishes caught up... That dishwasher has a direct impact on the total operation of the business.

Again, I'm not saying this is an easy decision for an employer to make, nor am I denying that the govt played a major role in creating the problem. All I'm saying is that we are here now. So how are you going to fix the problem? @DonjoVol suggested paying slightly more to attract more lower skilled workers and inadvertently lit a fuse.
 
#518
#518
mr.checkerboards said:
Because you're opening up a can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. If you bring in a new employee at $12, and your old employee makes $11. Now you have two employees A and B, they started at the same time and do the same job, A is an excellent worker, B is not. They both come to you for equal raises. Are you going to give both the same amount of money? Are you going to tell B that A is more deserving than them so A gets more money and they're on the bottom? Are you going to tell A that since they started at the same time they are getting the same raise?
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It is a bad situation for a company/business to be in. I get it. The govt screwed business with their moves.

But how long can the company play this game of chicken? They won't hire someone at a slightly higher rate in a position that needs to be filled because it will potentially create wage inflation. So they would rather play the waiting game until wage deflation starts to creep back in (which could take how long) or they risk just hiring a few warm bodies that roll in and roll out (training costs and wasted time/resources) or they hope to get lucky and get a unicorn.

Or... if they really need that position filled right now, they do what they can to fill that position by offering a little bit more. Or they rotate current employees into that job to fill in. Neither of these instances will not come with some sort of increase in wages.
 
#519
#519
Rasputin_Vol said:
And how long will the cooks and servers then be saying "Look, I'm doing these extra duties outside of my original job. I need to be compensated more."?

You see? They are not going to escape the labor/wage issue or disgruntled employees in either situation. If you hire a dishwasher at higher than some of your older staff, then you have a problem. If you have people filling in on that job from time to time and expect them to also do their regular jobs, then you have an issue. Oh, and not to mention, if you have people splitting duties or adding more to their plates, don't you think their performance in their regular position will suffer? Tables may have longer wait times because dishes are not available or either a cook or a server has to get the dishes caught up... That dishwasher has a direct impact on the total operation of the business.

Again, I'm not saying this is an easy decision for an employer to make, nor am I denying that the govt played a major role in creating the problem. All I'm saying is that we are here now. So how are you going to fix the problem? @DonjoVol suggested paying slightly more to attract more lower skilled workers and inadvertently lit a fuse.
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Its not perfect for sure, but going back to those who already work for the company, it would make more sense to bump their pay some since they already have the knowledge and skills needed and provide more value to the company.

Now, how would I fix it, this will probably be less popular than Donjo's suggestion but:
1) End all covid related moratoriums, make people pay their rent, student loans, get rid of this x amount per child per family that people are getting.
2) End all programs for companies related to getting money due to a workforce shortage
3) Quit with the stupid vaccine mandates for companies
4) Hire a younger workforce, as part of the problem is people are trying to raise families on entry level job salaries that were never ment for families to be raised on
5) Make college/trade school less expensive and more affordable, and encourage adults to go back to school and learn skills so they can get better paying jobs.
6) Be patient, once the government assistance runs out, people will start running back to these jobs, or be faced with losing everything.
 
#520
#520
Rasputin_Vol said:
It is a bad situation for a company/business to be in. I get it. The govt screwed business with their moves.

But how long can the company play this game of chicken? They won't hire someone at a slightly higher rate in a position that needs to be filled because it will potentially create wage inflation. So they would rather play the waiting game until wage deflation starts to creep back in (which could take how long) or they risk just hiring a few warm bodies that roll in and roll out (training costs and wasted time/resources) or they hope to get lucky and get a unicorn.

Or... if they really need that position filled right now, they do what they can to fill that position by offering a little bit more. Or they rotate current employees into that job to fill in. Neither of these instances will not come with some sort of increase in wages.
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I think it depends on what kind of company we are talking about. A small mom and pop shop is more likely to need the position filled as they are more likely running with fewer employees, but can they afford the increased wages probably not. A bigger corporation can most likely find some way within their own ranks to fill those positions or cover the jobs.
Part of the problem is people think they hold all over the power because of the government money, but what they dont realize is the short term gains will be lost rather quickly once the companies take back control. If the government mandates an increase in wages, the companies will start running with smaller and smaller skeleton crews. If they dont then the minute they can companies will begin forcing out these higher paid people at the first opportunity they can.
 
#521
#521
mr.checkerboards said:
Its not perfect for sure, but going back to those who already work for the company, it would make more sense to bump their pay some since they already have the knowledge and skills needed and provide more value to the company.

Now, how would I fix it, this will probably be less popular than Donjo's suggestion but:
1) End all covid related moratoriums, make people pay their rent, student loans, get rid of this x amount per child per family that people are getting.
2) End all programs for companies related to getting money due to a workforce shortage
3) Quit with the stupid vaccine mandates for companies
4) Hire a younger workforce, as part of the problem is people are trying to raise families on entry level job salaries that were never ment for families to be raised on
5) Make college/trade school less expensive and more affordable, and encourage adults to go back to school and learn skills so they can get better paying jobs.
6) Be patient, once the government assistance runs out, people will start running back to these jobs, or be faced with losing everything.
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That is a larger macro solution. I think most would agree with some of what you said.

But in the short term, we have to deal with what we have right now. What does a company right now do before they can get any new legislation passed (or old legislation and edicts removed)?
 
#522
#522
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is a larger macro solution. I think most would agree with some of what you said.

But in the short term, we have to deal with what we have right now. What does a company right now do before they can get any new legislation passed (or old legislation and edicts removed)?
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Best thing to do is wait it out.
 
#523
#523
Vol423 said:
Once again, I haven't addressed that at all in any of my posts. What I have said repeatedly is that all employees should be treated with dignity and respect and appreciated for their contributions to an organization. The only persons here trying to assassinate anyone's character are you and Rasputin_Vol, who have consistently attributed thoughts and statements to me that I have never thought or written.
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Lol. You are unbelievable. You threw multiple insults my way. Accused me of voting for Biden, called me a socialist, assumed I was some leftist millennial or Gen Zer, etc. And then of course there was the most recent juvenile rant littered with insults directed my way.

Like I said you are quite the character. And just think all this started with me simply suggesting that maybe starting wage should be higher for people working in shipping and that their job was just as valuable to the organization as anyone else.
 
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#524
#524
Oh, I missed this. Another Boomer response.

Hey, Boomer, $4 today doesn't have the same purchasing power as it did when you were working for Cas Walker or working at Woolworth's.

Vol423 said:
The younger generations in this country today are fragile creatures that believe that being politically correct and bankrupting our country's future in the name of climate change are the most important challenges our country faces. We, as a nation, are going to be absolutely devoured by the Chinese over the next 40-50 years because we have allowed the liberal left to brainwash our kids.
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