would you be for a southern country?

#152
#152
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
Not that Jeffereson Davis was worth a crap, but if Jefferson David III is anything like Hamk Williams III, I'm even goner than I was....
Click to expand...

Dude was worth a crap. What you might not know about Jefferson Davis:

1- Adopted a black son (kidnapped by Union troops)
2- Appointed a Jewish cabinet member (first in American/Confederate history)
3- Begged for trial by jury during post-war imprisonment, knowing the constitution was on his side. Of course they never tried him, or even charged him. They held him for a few years in a windowless cell. He ended up a little insane from what I understand.
 
#153
#153
sjt18 said:
Can a valedictorian pray at commencement?
Click to expand...

No problem with that, but why does it have to be over the microphone? Why can't they just pray to themselves?

sjt18 said:
Has the positive influence of religion on American history been pretty much purged from public school books?
Click to expand...

What positive influences? McCarthyism? Salem Witch Trials?

sjt18 said:
Can creation be taught in public schools?
Click to expand...

If there's ample amounts of biological, chemical, or physical scientific evidence, sure. But we know there really isn't much to be studied. It's 100% faith-based, rather than science-based.
 
#154
#154
barton equals christian slant like burke davis equals robert e lee the greatest person to ever live
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#156
#156
utvolpj said:
when trying to get your point across to the masses in 1780 do you quote Montesquieu or the Bible? Which is more likely to be found in the house of an average person around that time?
Click to expand...

I really don't understand your point here.
I do know without Substance , the source doesn't matter? no matter how many copies are on the peoples bedside tables.
 
Last edited:
#158
#158
utvolpj said:
I've read quite a few times about suspected atheists but of course they couldn't come out then or they would have been run out of town. Good thing times have changed...
Click to expand...

Who was writing that BS, was it some Academic that was speculating a thought 200+ years later or was it from a written /spoken SOURCE. Footnote on bottom of page i hope?

I believe what the Founders Wrote. These Men Revolted against England against unsurmountable odds with Death to them and their families if they were caught or defeated, i have never seen it written and without hard proof do not believe that these Men and Women were afraid of being "run out of town" for their beliefs/nonbeliefs. Frankly that notion is preposterous and it cheapens their sacrifices made for our independence.
 
#159
#159
OrangeEmpire said:
Well versed in both, the nation was never intended to be a christian nation. freedom is what this nation is founded on
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Your quote above.

Some founder Quotes below...I highlighted some that pertains to Christianity and our Government from the guys who penned it no doubt.

A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity, and the Bible


John Adams
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1

The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.2

Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.3

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.4

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!5 I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.6


John Quincy Adams
SIXTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; DIPLOMAT; SECRETARY OF STATE; U. S. SENATOR; U. S. REPRESENTATIVE; “OLD MAN ELOQUENT”; “HELL-HOUND OF ABOLITION”

My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.7

The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the Divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made “bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God” [Isaiah 52:10].8

In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.9

Samuel Adams
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; “FATHER OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION”; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS

The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe [Proverbs 18:10]. Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better.11

I conceive we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world . . . that the confusions that are and have been among the nations may be overruled by the promoting and speedily bringing in the holy and happy period when the kingdoms of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and the people willingly bow to the scepter of Him who is the Prince of Peace.12

Josiah Bartlett MILITARY OFFICER; SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

Called on the people of New Hampshire . . . to confess before God their aggravated transgressions and to implore His pardon and forgiveness through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ . . . [t]hat the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ may be made known to all nations, pure and undefiled religion universally prevail, and the earth be fill with the glory of the Lord.16


Gunning BedfordMILITARY OFFICER; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; FEDERAL JUDGE

To the triune God – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost – be ascribed all honor and dominion, forevermore – Amen.17


Elias Boudinot
PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; SIGNED THE PEACE TREATY TO END THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION; FIRST ATTORNEY ADMITTED TO THE U. S. SUPREME COURT BAR; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; DIRECTOR OF THE U. S. MINT

Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils. . . . We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning . . . in order to open the meeting with prayer.18

Jacob Broom
LEGISLATOR; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION

A letter to his son, James, attending Princeton University:

I flatter myself you will be what I wish, but don’t be so much flatterer as to relax of your application – don’t forget to be a Christian. I have said much to you on this head, and I hope an indelible impression is made.21

Charles CarrollSIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; SELECTED AS DELEGATE TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; U. S. SENATOR


Grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ Our Lord, He had conferred on my beloved country in her emancipation and on myself in permitting me, under circumstances of mercy, to live to the age of 89 years, and to survive the fiftieth year of independence, adopted by Congress on the 4th of July 1776, which I originally subscribed on the 2d day of August of the same year and of which I am now the last surviving signer.23

[/Congress, 1854

The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.25


Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854

Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle... In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity... That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.26

John Dickinson
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF DELAWARE; GENERAL IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION

Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.27

[Governments] could not give the rights essential to happiness… We claim them from a higher source: from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth.28


Benjamin Franklin


SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION; DIPLOMAT; PRINTER; SCIENTIST; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.30

The body of Benjamin Franklin, printer, like the cover of an old book, its contents torn out and stripped of its lettering and guilding, lies here, food for worms. Yet the work itself shall not be lost; for it will, as he believed, appear once more in a new and more beatiful edition, corrected and amended by the Author.31 (FRANKLIN’S EULOGY THAT HE WROTE FOR HIMSELF)


Elbridge GerrySIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; MEMBER OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS, GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

He called on the State of Massachusetts to pray that . . .

with one heart and voice we may prostrate ourselves at the throne of heavenly grace and present to our Great Benefactor sincere and unfeigned thanks for His infinite goodness and mercy towards us from our birth to the present moment for having above all things illuminated us by the Gospel of Jesus Christ, presenting to our view the happy prospect of a blessed immortality.32
And for our unparalleled ingratitude to that Adorable Being Who has seated us in a land irradiated by the cheering beams of the Gospel of Jesus Christ . . . let us fall prostrate before offended Deity, confess sincerely and penitently our manifold sins and our unworthiness of the least of His Divine favors, fervently implore His pardon through the merits of our mediator.33
And deeply impressed with a scene of our unparalleled ingratitude, let us contemplate the blessings which have flowed from the unlimited grave and favor of offended Deity, that we are still permitted to enjoy the first of Heaven’s blessings: the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 34

Alexander Hamilton
REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

One other consequence of Hamilton’s untimely death was that it permanently halted the forma¬tion of a religious society Hamilton had proposed. Hamilton suggested that it be named the Christian Constitutional Society, and listed two goals for its formation: first, the support of the Christian religion; and second, the support of the Constitution of the United States. This or¬ganization was to have numerous clubs throughout each state which would meet regularly and work to elect to office those who reflected the goals of the Christian Constitutional Society. 37


John Hancock
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS


He called on the entire state to pray “that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.”39

John Hart
JUDGE; LEGISLATOR; SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION

[T]hanks be given unto Almighty God therefore, and knowing that it is appointed for all men once to die and after that the judgment [Hebrews 9:27] . . . principally, I give and recommend my soul into the hands of Almighty God who gave it and my body to the earth to be buried in a decent and Christian like manner . . . to receive the same again at the general resurrection by the mighty power of God.48


Patrick HenryREVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; LEGISLATOR; “THE VOICE OF LIBERTY”; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA

Being a Christian… is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast.49

The Bible… is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.50

Righteousness alone can exalt America as a nation. Whoever thou art, remember this; and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself, and encourage it in others.51

The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible.52

This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.53


Samuel HuntingtonSIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; JUDGE; GOVERNOR OF CONNECTICUT

It becomes a people publicly to acknowledge the over-ruling hand of Divine Providence and their dependence upon the Supreme Being as their Creator and Merciful Preserver . . . and with becoming humility and sincere repentance to supplicate the pardon that we may obtain forgiveness through the merits and mediation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.54


James IredellRATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NORTH CAROLINA; U. S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON

For my part, I am free and ready enough to declare that I think the Christian religion is a Divine institution; and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principles and practice.55


John JayPRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; DIPLOMAT; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; ORIGINAL CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE U. S. SUPREME COURT; GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK

Condescend, merciful Father! to grant as far as proper these imperfect petitions, to accept these inadequate thanksgivings, and to pardon whatever of sin hath mingled in them for the sake of Jesus Christ, our blessed Lord and Savior; unto Whom, with Thee, and the blessed Spirit, ever one God, be rendered all honor and glory, now and forever. 56

Mercy and grace and favor did come by Jesus Christ, and also that truth which verified the promises and predictions concerning Him and which exposed and corrected the various errors which had been imbibed respecting the Supreme Being, His attributes, laws, and dispensations.58

I recommend a general and public return of praise and thanksgiving to Him from whose goodness these blessings descend. The most effectual means of securing the continuance of our civil and religious liberties is always to remember with reverence and gratitude the source from which they flow.60

The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.61

[T]he evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds... they who undertake that task will derive advantages.62

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.63


Thomas JeffersonSIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; DIPLOMAT; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA; SECRETARY OF STATE; THIRD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.64

The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses.65

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.66

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.67


George Washington
JUDGE; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OF THE CONTINENTAL ARMY; PRESIDENT OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; “FATHER OF HIS COUNTRY”

You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.122

While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.123

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.124

I now make it my earnest prayer that God would… most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of the mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion.125

Jamee MadisonSIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; AUTHOR OF THE FEDERALIST PAPERS; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECRETARY OF STATE; FOURTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.72

I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.73

Benjamin Rush
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; SURGEON GENERAL OF THE CONTINENTAL ARMY; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; “FATHER OF AMERICAN MEDICINE”; TREASURER OF THE U. S. MINT; “FATHER OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION”

The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations! . . . My only hope of salvation is in the infinite tran¬scendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Noth¬ing but His blood will wash away my sins [Acts 22:16]. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! [Revelation 22:20]98

I do not believe that the Constitution was the offspring of inspiration, but I am as satisfied that it is as much the work of a Divine Providence as any of the miracles recorded in the Old and New Testament.99

By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects… It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published.100

[T]he greatest discoveries in science have been made by Christian philosophers and . . . there is the most knowledge in those countries where there is the most Christianity.101



There are hundreds of more examples of our Founders words as in relation to Government and Christianity. I frankly got tired of listing them but would be glad to if you would like.

If you read this you KNOW you are wrong now, right?
 
#160
#160
nbakerld said:
Also, I am now realizing that the milk may be only banned in CA. Not sure.

Either way, there are tons of weird things that are getting banned like caffeinated alcoholic beverages* and fish pedicures.

*How long until they ban bartenders from serving me my favorite Jack and Coke?
Click to expand...

Don't forget circumcision.
 
#161
#161
I rarely post but after reading Murr's posts I feel it is necessary. I have only but two points to express.

I first will address your ample supply of quotations. In short, other then showing off your ability to use the Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V buttons, they are not pertinent to the point you are attempting to make. This is because these quotes are taken out of context. Therefore, we need context to understand the true meaning behind these quotes. For example, I would want to know were these quotes taken out of the Federalist papers, a newspaper, an address one of them was making to a church ....etc. Otherwise, the quotes do not really paint us the whole picture.

The second point I would like to make is that the Constitution is the foundation of our government, not the declaration of independence. In very simple terms, the DOI does nothing for your argument. This is becaues it was the Constitution that was adopted by the states.

And in that Constitution it clearly addresses the issue of religion. This is found in what is called the Bill of Rights and more specifically in the 1st Amendment. The relevant part of that Amendment states, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

This first part is referred to as the Establishment Clause and it prohibits any law respecting an establishment of religion. Thus, its main purpose is to prevent gov't from endorsing or supporting religion. The second part is referred to as the Free Exercise Clause and prevents any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Therefore, its main purpose is to prevent the gov't from outlawing or seriously burdening a person's pursuit of whatever religion (and religious practices) he or she chooses.

To conclude, I will offer a quote of my own, taken from a SCOTUS opinion that states:
"A union of government and religion tends to destroy government and to degrade religion."
​
 
#162
#162
gotta love a kid without a science degree talking smack about science and someone from soddy daisy giving history lessons.

volnation greater than a nights sleep at holiday inn.
 
#163
#163
@mur73

couldnt quote via phone, text too long to scroll through

You are horribly confused or abundantly arrogant....

I believe as you do the country was founded on christian values on the basis freedom comes from god only....i have no idea where you r coming from
Posted via VolNation Mobile

the establishment of the country is one based upon freedom
 
Last edited:
#164
#164
MUR73 said:
Who was writing that BS, was it some Academic that was speculating a thought 200+ years later or was it from a written /spoken SOURCE. Footnote on bottom of page i hope?
Click to expand...

it came from either Adams or Franklin and was in their biography. I don't feel like digging out the text but I do remember it standing out
 
#168
#168
OrangeEmpire said:
adams also had a unique view of the world
Posted via VolNation Mobile

franklin, I consider, was a modern man....
Click to expand...

I liked what I read about Adams with regards to building the US but just didn't identify with him as a person. That was very easy to do with Franklin
 
#171
#171
Vol4LifeLCA said:
I rarely post but after reading Murr's posts I feel it is necessary. I have only but two points to express.

I first will address your ample supply of quotations. In short, other then showing off your ability to use the Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V buttons, they are not pertinent to the point you are attempting to make. This is because these quotes are taken out of context. Therefore, we need context to understand the true meaning behind these quotes. For example, I would want to know were these quotes taken out of the Federalist papers, a newspaper, an address one of them was making to a church ....etc. Otherwise, the quotes do not really paint us the whole picture.

The second point I would like to make is that the Constitution is the foundation of our government, not the declaration of independence. In very simple terms, the DOI does nothing for your argument. This is becaues it was the Constitution that was adopted by the states.

And in that Constitution it clearly addresses the issue of religion. This is found in what is called the Bill of Rights and more specifically in the 1st Amendment. The relevant part of that Amendment states, " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

This first part is referred to as the Establishment Clause and it prohibits any law respecting an establishment of religion. Thus, its main purpose is to prevent gov't from endorsing or supporting religion. The second part is referred to as the Free Exercise Clause and prevents any law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Therefore, its main purpose is to prevent the gov't from outlawing or seriously burdening a person's pursuit of whatever religion (and religious practices) he or she chooses.

To conclude, I will offer a quote of my own, taken from a SCOTUS opinion that states:
"A union of government and religion tends to destroy government and to degrade religion."
​
Click to expand...

So do not try to make me out to be something i am not, i don't suggest the Founders wanted a Theocracy

if you had read my other posts i have stated for the
3rd time now that The founders stated that the individual had the right to worship/or not worship as they saw fit.

SO please quit trying to imply that i said the Founders wanted a Theocracy, i have said , multiple times to the contrary.

You haven't read all of my posts obvioulsy and do not understand the point i am trying to make. The Great Wall of quotes, which i trimmed back immensely, proves the point i was arguing in that these founders were by in large Christians and not mostly Deist or scared Atheist , in the closet, as was implied.

And the fact that all i had to do was "use the Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V buttons" illustratesjust how easy it is for one to find the truth when searching.

I am simply trying to establish who these men were.their beliefs, influences,etc...and We all are a product of our belief system to an extent. To say their beliefs and the text they choose to be a guide, The Bible, as they wrote the DOI and The Constitution wasnt an influence is an absurdity.

On the Constitution, The Bill Of rights more specifically, The declaration That Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof does not disprove anything i have said. I agree that Congress doesn't have the power to force religion on me, or the part that Libs seem to forget prohibit me from worshipping as i see fit and where i see fit as i understand the text as long as government hasn't sponsered it.

Next, i agree whole heartedly Context does matter and i will provide links below for the content sited.

I will conclude my post with this, Context does matter so please reference all my posts and realize the point i am trying to confere before assuming my thoughts.

My challenge to you now is for you to "show off" with buttons and give me a quarter of this list of the Founders that proves they were not "almost all" Christians. that is the point that was being glossed over that i was addressing and the point i have made by my listing and not suggesting America was founded as a Theocracy as you are trying to turn this into. By the way thanks for the lesson and i agree with you but you could have saved some time by reading all my posts on th subject.

I will include the References to the quotes below if anyone wants to look them up.
 
#172
#172
MUR73 said:
So do not try to make me out to be something i am not, i don't suggest the Founders wanted a Theocracy

if you had read my other posts i have stated for the
3rd timenow that The founders stated that the individual had the right to worship/or not worship as they saw fit.
Click to expand...

He probably didn't because they're way too long.
 
#173
#173
nbakerld said:
He probably didn't because they're way too long.
Click to expand...

I understand that but there is volumes of Info that backed my point and i wanted to show a drop of the overwelming evidence as i left out the majority of that study alone.
 
Last edited:
#175
#175
utvolpj said:
I've read quite a few times about suspected atheists but of course they couldn't come out then or they would have been run out of town. Good thing times have changed...[/QUOTE]

MUR73 said:
The evidence is clear that not only can none of them be called an atheist; only the smallest handful would fit today’s definition of a deist. Nevertheless, despite this irrefutable evidence, the charge persists to the contrary as, for example, evidenced in an article in American Heritage by Gordon Wood. Wood amazingly asserted:

The Founding Fathers were at most deists and were a very thin veneer on their society. In a national article, Steven Morris similarly claimed:

The early presidents and patriots were generally deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the relevance of the Bible. Wood, Morris, and all who make such broad charges are totally incorrect, deliberately ignoring all historical facts to the contrary. They also randomly, recklessly, and even unethically impute the term “deist” to Founders who would vehemently deny it if they were alive today. For example, some contemporary works incorrectly assert that Jefferson called himself a deist. Yet historical records are clear that not only did Jefferson not call himself a deist, he called himself a Christian:

I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. Although Jefferson did call himself a Christian, he would probably fail the standard by any orthodox definition, for he viewed Jesus only as a great teacher and not as Divine.

Nonetheless, the fact remains that Jefferson did not call himself a deist; he called himself a Christian. Even though a very few of the Founders did consider themselves deists for example, Franklin did call himself a “deist”, the definition of a deist in that day is totally different from today’s definition, evidenced by the fact that Franklin totally rejected the “clockmaker” concept and believed that prayer was worthwhile and that God did intervene in our daily affairs. The evidence is clear that atheism was rejected by the Founding Fathers and even the deism of that day was strongly frowned upon by most of them.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top