would you be for a southern country?

#176
#176
OrangeEmpire said:
sure........barton is a reach
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OrangeEmpire said:
Truth? Barton is a hack.....im sorry you dont see his slanted historical view

Now you are reaching out to left field......oe is one evil southern baptists...
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OrangeEmpire said:
barton equals christian slant like burke davis equals robert e lee the greatest person to ever live
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What does Your dislike of David Barton have to do with the spoken/writen word of The Founders. The truth doesn't have an Agenda, it just is the Truth. These men said it and their is documentation to prove it, its fairly simple really.
 
#178
#178
MUR73 said:
The evidence is clear that atheism was rejected by the Founding Fathers and even the deism of that day was strongly frowned upon by most of them.
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actually it's not. You try to pigeon-hole Franklin but even he went back and forth throughout his life. Read all of their words and not just carefully selected quotes from someone with an agenda
 
#179
#179
utvolpj said:
actually it's not. You try to pigeon-hole Franklin but even he went back and forth throughout his life. Read all of their words and not just carefully selected quotes from someone with an agenda
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Even with a mountain of evidence you still cannot concede the point huh?

I can easily give you pages and pages of more but wont because i know they aren't read or are looked upon suspiciously for some made up conspiracy that would hairlip even Jesse Ventura.

I am not pigeon-holing anyone, i know that Franklin had his doubts but defininetly did believe in a Creator , i also know Thomas Paine was considered by many a diest.

I know that you and i have been mislead too and that these mens faith has been glossed over and diminshed by many that actually have with a agenda.

You know you really don't have to actually be very "careful" in selecting most of these quotes, because it is obvious to someone that can simply read that they were men of Faith....No conspiracy or agenda just a fact.
 
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#180
#180
Here is the words of Thomas Paine the Diest.

Thomas Paine Criticizes the Current Public School Science Curriculum ?

Thomas Paine concerned about the content of our current science courses? Definitely!

In a speech he delivered in Paris on January 16, 1797, Thomas Paine harshly criticized what the French were then teaching in their science classes-especially the philosophy they were using. Interestingly, that same science philosophy of which Thomas Paine was so critical is identical to that used in our public schools today. Paine's indictment of that philosophy is particularly significant in light of the fact that all historians today concede that Thomas Paine was one of the very least religious of our Founders. Yet, even Paine could not abide teaching science, which excluded God's work and hand in the creation of the world and of all scientific phenomena. Below is an excerpt from that speech.

(While Benjamin Franklin was serving in London as diplomat from the Colonies to the King, Franklin met Englishman Thomas Paine (born 1737, died 1809). Franklin arranged for him to move to America in 1774 and helped set him up in the printing business. In 1776, Paine wrote Common Sense, which helped fuel the separation of America from Great Britain. He then served as a soldier in the American Revolution. He returned to England in 1787, and then went to France in 1792 as a supporter of the French Revolution. In 1794, he published his Age of Reason, the deistic work, which brought him much criticism from his former American friends. Upon his return to America in 1802, he found no welcome and eventually died as an outcast.)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thomas Paine on "The Study of God"
Delivered in Paris on January 16, 1797, in a
Discourse to the Society of Theophilanthropists

It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of Divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.

When we examine an extraordinary piece of machinery, an astonishing pile of architecture, a well executed statue or a highly finished painting where life and action are imitated, and habit only prevents our mistaking a surface of light and shade for cubical solidity, our ideas are naturally led to think of the extensive genius and talents of the artist. When we study the elements of geometry, we think of Euclid. When we speak of gravitation, we think of Newton. How then is it, that when we study the works of God in the creation, we stop short, and do not think of God? It is from the error of the schools in having taught those subjects as accomplishments only, and thereby separated the study of them form the Being who is the author of them. . . .

The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of the creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of His existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter; and jump over all the rest, by saying that matter is eternal.

DOES THIS WORK.?... It is a speech , not a short quip, and also provided is the context of when/why/where it was spoken and it was obviously accusing indoctrination.
 
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#181
#181
you're right, I don't read the jumbled mess of cherry-picked quotes you copy/pasted off some other site. The reason is I don't need to because I've read their own words and writings and they are much longer than 1-2 sentences. I believe I'm a smart enough guy that I don't need anyone to interpret that for me
 
#182
#182
God, I take a month's break from my phone and the internet and MUR's discovered the bold, italic, and underline features.

They boot gs or something? He mad.
 
#187
#187
MUR73 said:
What does Your dislike of David Barton have to do with the spoken/writen word of The Founders. The truth doesn't have an Agenda, it just is the Truth. These men said it and their is documentation to prove it, its fairly simple really.
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horribly confusing.........i dont know how much clearer the basis of the country being based in freedom from God

christian nation it is not
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#189
#189
OrangeEmpire said:
?
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OrangeEmpire said:
u lost me?

The baron cannot grant freedom
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OrangeEmpire said:
dont know how to take that, clarify?Posted via VolNation Mobile
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OrangeEmpire said:
what are u talking about?Posted via VolNation Mobile
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OrangeEmpire said:
horribly confusing.........i dont know how much clearer the basis of the country being based in freedom from God

christian nation it is not
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Is OrangeEmpire suffering from Acute Dementia, He seems to be in a constant fog of arguing against imagined points and utter confusion.
 
#190
#190
MUR73 said:
Is OrangeEmpire suffering from Acute Dementia, He seems to be in a constant fog of arguing against imagined points and utter confusion.
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Not my fault you think im arguing against u.......
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#192
#192
OrangeEmpire said:
Not my fault you think im arguing against u.......
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Look i am not trying to Fight with you and i respect your opinion, i am only trying to shed light on these mens faith. They're beliefs have been minimized and challenged and there is volumes of evidence that says most belong to the Christian Faith, This will be the last time stated i am not claiming they wanted a Theocracy.
 
#195
#195
TennTradition said:
I can't think of many problems that a southern country would address. If anything, our cultural differences are much more driven by urban vs. rural than south vs. north.
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Yeah it's more cities versus the country towns.
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#197
#197
utvolpj said:
many were deists and some even atheists who were very careful to keep religion and politics separate. Even the most fanatical among them knew this was the right thing to do. A Southern state would be a step backwards in this regard. And yes, there is very much to fear from officials who would have to use their religion to get elected and owe their people
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Nothing to fear if you were white and religiony.

Minus Texas, arent most the southern states really poor?
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#198
#198
I can only speak of va and we r in decent shape all things considered mississippi and arkansas are considered poor by and large
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