Year Two: win a bowl game or go sit in the hot seat

#26
#26
This is exactly why Tennessee has struggled so hard to get back to the top. Have you seen our schedule this year? A bowl game would be fantastic. In all honesty We are more talented than 5 teams on our schedule period so getting to six wins means beating a team better than us.
 
#27
#27
No brainer is not the phrase needed....it's wins Tennessee should take. You got to win the ones you shouldn't lose, and there are 6 we shouldn't lose.
 
#28
#28
Too many variables to say "Win a bowl game or else..." or "Must win _ games"...a lot can happen. If everyone stays healthy and out of trouble, I think making it to a bowl game is reasonable. I think there are 6 "should be" wins on the schedule, and maybe we can steal one of the others even. Id be pleased THIS season with a bowl win. Anything else and I admit I would be disappointed and maybe even start to wonder if CBJ is what we hope he will be. I don't think its unreasonable to say if we cant win 6 this season, the seat will surely start to warm up a little bit...but Im personally willing to see how things go in 2015 and 2016 once these top ranked recruiting classes get some time on the field and in the weight room. Im trying my best to be realistic about how far down we had fallen, and how long it will take to build things back up....once the season gets here, I admit, I will still yell and cuss anytime we lose.
 
#29
#29
sjt18 said:
Here's the glaring problem that so many of you want to avoid. Jones has recruited well by selling a dream. That dream is "being part of something special" and "restoring UT to its rightful place". He sold it well in '14 AND very importantly benefited from a large number of talented UT legacies. Continuing to get those players by selling that dream WILL REQUIRE the ability to point to results ON the field. If he does not win more than 5 games this fall... don't plan on "adding a whole other class (highly rated)".


Fair or not (I think it is), Jones needs 6 to 8 wins this fall. Absent a charmed season like Mizzou had last fall when their key opponents all lost critical players just before playing them... UT isn't ready to make a run at the SEC. But taking a step forward is not only reasonable... it is VERY necessary.
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The requirement is 6 wins this year. That was my requirement, which is why I was so upset with him last year, but his recruiting efforts eased the pressure up on him.

A true "rebuilding" is a 3-4 year process, and it's only one year in.
 
#30
#30
ntxVOL said:
Our roster won't have enough talent to realistically compete for the east in 2015. We don't even know how the 2015 class is going to turn out yet.

Even with a top 5 2015 class, we will still have depth issues next year. Just takes time to fill the roster with the quality talent we need to get us to the SEC CCG.

2016 is still a stretch I think.
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Well last year we beat the number 4 ranked team in the country with lesser talent and should have beaten UGA as well. Jones is reeling in better players now. I don't think we should win the east by 2015 but WE SHOULD definitely not be out of the conversation by mid October either. It is called competing. If Jones is worth a darn he can coach up the elite talent being brought in and see extremely positive results by 2015. You can only play the young and inexperienced card for so long.
 
#31
#31
thetennlegend said:
This is exactly why Tennessee has struggled so hard to get back to the top. Have you seen our schedule this year? A bowl game would be fantastic. In all honesty We are more talented than 5 teams on our schedule period so getting to six wins means beating a team better than us.
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Correct. 5 Dimes has TN as 5.5 wins for the over/under. They set those early lines based on the perception that homers for those teams will pump up the over. For now, TN will not only have to win all games in which they will likely be the favorite, they will also have to pull an upset as defined by Vegas to make a bowl. Not a minor task with this schedule.
 
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#32
#32
UT can go bowling without having to beat anyone better than Vanderbilt. Jones absolutely deserves to go on the hot seat for 2015 if we're home for Christmas this season.
 
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#33
#33
Titan&Volfan4life said:
You're wrong on so many levels that your opinion here is a joke!

buTch is NOT overpaid and in fact 9 other SEC coaches earn more than he does so he's on the lower rung of SEC coaches pay.

Next this is really the FIRST real recruiting class of his since last year he only tried to add to what CDD had put together and he added some pretty good players in a very short period of time.

buTches 1st recruiting class are true freshmen and some aren't even up to date on the playbook yet.

Next check our schedule and you'll see it's 1 of the toughest in the country and those that OVERexpect like you're obviously doing ARE part ofthe problem we've been having trying to get good coaches on the hill to rebuild our program the right ways.

Even if nick satan had left alabummer to rebuild our footVol team it would take him 4 years of good recruiting to get us back to the top but you expect buTch to do wonders with his 1st recruiting class, LOL!

I'd suggest you actually learn something about college football, recruiting and what it really takes to rebuild a total program and spend less time on here making yourself look so dumb with posts already calling for more than any coach could do in such a sort timeframe.

I hope for 6 Wins this season but I won't be surprised if we get less than 6 with our brutal schedule.

It's sad how many here on VN are still so totally UNrealistic.

#BrickbyBrick...VFL...GBO!!!
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No. The truly sad thing is that so many of you bristle at COMPLETELY reasonable expectations. Six wins is asking nothing more than for him to beat the teams he plays with less talent. If you choose to call that "dumb" or "unreasonable"... then maybe YOU are the one who needs to learn something about college football. Coaches over the last 20 years who have successfully turned programs around almost most always make a difference in W/L in year one.... and year two at the latest.

Whether you think it is "fair" or not, Jones needs to improve W/L. One game... two games... three games. He needs to improve there AND in being competitive in losses. He doesn't necessarily "need" it for you, me, the AD, or the boosters... but he DEFINITELY needs it for those recruits who will choose between UT and other teams and coaches. When there's no sign of improvement... promises are worthless. Worse yet, those kids have other recruiters in their ears. Any sign of weakness or any question of competence can be the difference in signing a Torrance Gibson level QB... and not.
 
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#34
#34
Exfix said:
Correct. 5 Dimes has TN as 5.5 wins for the over/under. They set those early lines based on the perception that homers for those teams will pump up the over. For now, TN will not only have to win all games in which they will likely be the favorite, they will also have to pull an upset as defined by Vegas to make a bowl. Not a minor task with this schedule.
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UT will not have to beat a team with more talent to go bowling.
 
#37
#37
Everyone with an ounce of sense understands that CBJ won't be on the hot seat after this season. Lets be honest he took a horrible team last year and got the most out of them. The only reason why he needs to make a bowl game has nothing to do with his job security it has all to do with recruiting. He needs to win so he can sign another top class. Unfortunately his bosses won't stop scheduling these grinder schedules which is really making us look bad and doesn't help our cause. CBJ, staff, and players all recognize how critical this year is and I know they will be ready to go get 6-7 wins.
 
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#38
#38
thetennlegend said:
This is exactly why Tennessee has struggled so hard to get back to the top. Have you seen our schedule this year? A bowl game would be fantastic. In all honesty We are more talented than 5 teams on our schedule period so getting to six wins means beating a team better than us.
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UT is more talented than USU, Chatt, ASU, UK, Vandy, and Mizzou. Getting to a bowl DOES NOT require UT to beat a more talented team. Far from it.
 
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#39
#39
sjt18 said:
No. The truly sad thing is that so many of you bristle at COMPLETELY reasonable expectations. Six wins is asking nothing more than for him to beat the teams he plays with less talent. If you choose to call that "dumb" or "unreasonable"... then maybe YOU are the one who needs to learn something about college football. Coaches over the last 20 years who have successfully turned programs around almost most always make a difference in W/L in year one.... and year two at the latest.

Whether you think it is "fair" or not, Jones needs to improve W/L. One game... two games... three games. He needs to improve there AND in being competitive in losses. He doesn't necessarily "need" it for you, me, the AD, or the boosters... but he DEFINITELY needs it for those recruits who will choose between UT and other teams and coaches. When there's no sign of improvement... promises are worthless. Worse yet, those kids have other recruiters in their ears. Any sign of weakness or any question of competence can be the difference in signing a Torrance Gibson level QB... and not.
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Exactly. He needs to win for recruiting.
 
#40
#40
PEPPERJAX said:
Well last year we beat the number 4 ranked team in the country with lesser talent and should have beaten UGA as well. Jones is reeling in better players now. I don't think we should win the east by 2015 but WE SHOULD definitely not be out of the conversation by mid October either. It is called competing. If Jones is worth a darn he can coach up the elite talent being brought in and see extremely positive results by 2015. You can only play the young and inexperienced card for so long.
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I wouldn't call us young this year, just thin.
 
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#41
#41
sjt18 said:
UT will not have to beat a team with more talent to go bowling.
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I said nothing about perceived talent levels based on star ratings. Although that does correlate with wins, I am speaking strictly about whether UT will be the Vegas favorite. I don't care about anyone else's opinion, just the opinion of those who put actual $ on the games. 5.5 wins is the over/under whether you like it or not.
 
#42
#42
vegas has UT at 4.5 wins. people whom make their living doing this and are pretty good at it, say 4.5. i hate to say it but 5-7 again, i hope whatever and 0 but i don't think that's going to be the case.
 
#43
#43
GBOVOLS said:
Everyone with an ounce of sense understands that CBJ won't be on the hot seat after this season. Lets be honest he took a horrible team last year and got the most out of them.
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Absolutely false. He can AND SHOULD be on a hot seat if he wins less than 6 games. Fired? Probably not unless there are 8 losses with 4 again being uncompetitive. But he DEFINITELY should not have any sense of job security without making a major move in '15 if he wins 5 or less this year.
The only reason why he needs to make a bowl game has nothing to do with his job security it has all to do with recruiting. He needs to win so he can sign another top class.
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True... which is his ONLY source of job security right now.
Unfortunately his bosses won't stop scheduling these grinder schedules which is really making us look bad and doesn't help our cause.
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Right. Which is another reason you cannot keep a coach at UT who doesn't prove he can win within 3 years. The sales pitch that brighter days are just around the corner simply don't work when things aren't improving on the field.

Imagine that UT manages only 4-5 wins this fall. If I am a rival recruiter then here's my "pitch". "Neal, Walls, Smith, Stone, Richardson, Miller, Moore,... do you know what those names have in common? They were all 4* Srs on Jones' first team. They were joined by good 3* players and some others who were drafted and STILL only won 5 games. Oh, and they were blown out 4 times. Now coach Jones wants to tell you that 4/5 wins is just a reflection of youth and inexperience but you'll have talented guys to play with? What you need to ask yourself is why he can't seem to win with experienced or inexperienced talent. Do you want to believe those empty promises or play for us...."

This assumes the "best case" 5 win season. If he slips up and loses to a USU, ASU, or Vandy... There's no good reason any recruit would listen to grand promises about them being good enough coaches to lift UT.

CBJ, staff, and players all recognize how critical this year is and I know they will be ready to go get 6-7 wins.
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I think you are right. Jones has shown every sign of being completely aware of the need to win sooner rather than later.
 
#44
#44
I don't care what the folks in Vegas think. Guess I will have to agree to disagree with some here on that.

I think sjt has it right, if we don't make a bowl game this year it will be a set back in recruiting. That is everything for this program right now and without that, we don't move forward.

CBJ has to get it done this season, JMO.
 
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#45
#45
If Jones is gone after yr 3, it'll be a mistake. Maybe he makes some staff changes but all you need to do is look at last years draft and the one coming up to see the talent at speed positions that we have had to go to battle with. This isn't a Dooley going to be here 3 years deal. Butch isn't Dooley and needs to be here a long time, which doesn't mean run him off because he can't recover from a decade of crap in a third of the time it took to run it down.
And if last year's team can take down a team like SC, next year's team has the ability as well.
 
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#47
#47
Yeah let's put him on the hot seat after two years so we can spend more "dinero" by paying him and another coach that we would have to hire at the same time so we can start all over and go through the same thing for two more years until that coach is on the hot seat. Sit back and relax and let it all work out. Were still paying enough coaches that are no longer with the school because everyone thinks a new hire is going to step in and make us the best team ever in the first two years
 
#49
#49
sjt18 said:
UT is more talented than USU, Chatt, ASU, UK, Vandy, and Mizzou. Getting to a bowl DOES NOT require UT to beat a more talented team. Far from it.
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We are 0 and 2 against mizzou since they joined they league. We will not be favored to beat them period it's possible yes but would still be an upset.
 
#50
#50
OrangeSummit said:
vegas has UT at 4.5 wins. people whom make their living doing this and are pretty good at it, say 4.5. i hate to say it but 5-7 again, i hope whatever and 0 but i don't think that's going to be the case.
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Source??? If Las Vegas is prepared to give me money if Tennessee wins 5 games this year, I will gamble my entire retirement savings.

This sounds like that one thread from earlier this year where the OP claimed that Utah State is favored to beat us, only it turns out that we're actually a 6.5 point favorite.
 
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