You must die now ...

#26
#26
Once gain the Ku Klux Klan has nothing to do with religion. There is no chapter in the Bible that says go find a sheet and cut holes in it and get a rope Billy-Bob. There is also no chapter that says go blow up abortion clinics.

I can sight passages in the Koran though that say to go cut some heads off.

That's the difference.
 
#27
#27
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
I'm sorry. I didn't realize any of us lived more than 100 years ago and it was relevant now. My bad. I'm glad you can go back to the Crusades. Seriously? The Crusades. Yes, and I have a real problem with how the Romans are running the world and the king of France needs to lay of the rest of Europe. Seriously?

I'm talking about anything within any of our lifetimes and you go back to the Crusades. I think we are talking about modern day events like the shoe bomber and what Mcveigh did had nothing to do with any religion.

I'm glad you were awake during 5th grade History. can we come back to 2010 now?
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Glad you ignored the other 90% of my post, captain.

We both know that if a man blew up a building, it would be an act of terror. If everyone found out that man was a Muslim, then it would be spun a whole new way. Just enforcing the same standard with McVeigh is all.
 
#28
#28
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Once gain the Ku Klux Klan has nothing to do with religion. There is no chapter in the Bible that says go find a sheet and cut holes in it and get a rope Billy-Bob. There is also no chapter that says go blow up abortion clinics.

I can sight passages in the Koran though that say to go cut some heads off.

That's the difference.
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Yes, because if it's anything about religious texts, they're immune to metaphors and personal interpretation.

Stop trying to distance fanaticism from religion. They're often one in the same.

You're seriously arguing that the organization known for burning crosses had zero ties with religion? It was a protestant terrorist group... good God!

I'm guessing you are a Christian.
 
#29
#29
DinkinFlicka said:
Yes, because if it's anything about religious texts, they're immune to metaphors and personal interpretation.

Stop trying to distance fanaticism from religion. They're often one in the same.

You're seriously arguing that the organization known for burning crosses had zero ties with religion? It was a protestant terrorist group... good God!

I'm guessing you are a Christian.
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You mentioned Mcveigh. What mcveigh did had nothing to do with religion. To throw his name out there was just stupid. As far the Klan goes it was a white power movement not a religious movement. You do realize that. They were killing black christians too. The fact you threw Mcveigh out there shows how left you are and grasping for straws.
 
#30
#30
DinkinFlicka said:
There's no true or false when it comes to how one interprets religious philosophy, in most cases.

"The road" Ed referred to was the one that leads to a "Islam is an archaic religion of hate and discrimination."

RJD was going down that road by asking anyone how something that horrible would actually be wrong in Muslim teachings. Basically, he wanted someone to disprove that Muslim teaches its followers to kill infidels.
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Ed was after the "well christians did it to" as to make a point instead of answering the question. Which has nothing to do with what muslim text teaches.

Im quite sure RDJ understands enough of the 2 to ask the question.
 
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#31
#31
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
You mentioned Mcveigh. What mcveigh did had nothing to do with religion. To throw his name out there was just stupid. As far the Klan goes it was a white power movement not a religious movement. You do realize that. They were killing black christians too. The fact you threw Mcveigh out there shows how left you are and grasping for straws.
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Left? How does my calling out Christianity prove I'm left in any way, shape, or form? You know what valid conclusion I can draw from that silly accusation?

You are a mindless zealot who paints the same color on any opinion that isn't vacant enough to find itself aligned with yours.

The Klan was a white Protestant movement. They didn't burn the St. Andrews cross because they were white. You congratulate me for passing 5th grade history... did you fail to do so yourself?

I'm starting to see why you agree with gsvol at times... I may have more toes than you do brain cells.
 
#32
#32
BeecherVol said:
Ed's was after the "well christians did it do" as to make a point instead of answering the question. Which has nothing to do with what muslim text teaches.

Im quite sure RDJ understands enough of the 2 to ask the question.
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I don't think RDJ is taking into account how open the Quran (or any religious text for that matter) is to interpretation. It's typical for non-Muslims to take everything in the Quran as read, but doing so with the Bible would result in a far different Christianity than we see today.

Christians generally overlook more Biblical proverbs than they follow just like with any other religion. One could rationalize it with the Old/New Testament argument among other things, but we still interpret these texts our own way.
 
#33
#33
It was not a prodestant movement it was an ex confederate movement that used symbolism to get fear. It was formed to get power back to the south, not to promote a religion.

You arre also comparing a small group of powerless people to multiple Muslim led nations that control hundreds of millions.

Let me see. I mention Iran, Palestine, Pakistan, Syria, etc and you give me rednecks for 50 years ago burning crosses in the deep south. Yeah, this makes alot of since. You go find about 100 people in the course of the last 100 years to compare to the billion I'm mentioning and the continual sucide bombers in different countries and the beating and raping of women in different countries all led by Muslim beliefs as your example. Good job. I don't see England or Spain or Ireland or Canada or the US allowing women to be stoned to death and hung for cheating or talking bad against a certain religious leader. Until then, your comparison is crap.
 
#34
#34
DinkinFlicka said:
I don't think RDJ is taking into account how open the Quran (or any religious text for that matter) is to interpretation. It's typical for non-Muslims to take everything in the Quran as read, but doing so with the Bible would result in a far different Christianity than we see today.

Christians generally overlook more Biblical proverbs than they follow just like with any other religion. One could rationalize it with the Old/New Testament argument among other things, but we still interpret these texts our own way.
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Tell me one verse that if took 100% literal in the Bible tells me to go kill the infedel or beat my wife. Just one smart guy. Tell me what verse you speak of that changes the Christian belief so much.
 
#35
#35
DinkinFlicka said:
I don't think RDJ is taking into account how open the Quran (or any religious text for that matter) is to interpretation. It's typical for non-Muslims to take everything in the Quran as read, but doing so with the Bible would result in a far different Christianity than we see today.

Christians generally overlook more Biblical proverbs than they follow just like with any other religion. One could rationalize it with the Old/New Testament argument among other things, but we still interpret these texts our own way.
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So you are saying is that the Quran does teach to kill "non believers" but there are muslims that do not follow this teaching? I would agree if so.

No different than christians that don't follow all teachings of the Bible? I would agree with that as well.

I think the 'interpretation" card is being over complicated and used in this way to try and make a point.
 
#36
#36
The point is you are not extreme if you are following your teachings word for word. You are only doing what it says. There is no kill the non believer in the Bible.
 
#37
#37
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
It was not a prodestant movement it was an ex confederate movement that used symbolism to get fear. It was formed to get power back to the south, not to promote a religion.

You arre also comparing a small group of powerless people to multiple Muslim led nations that control hundreds of millions.

Let me see. I mention Iran, Palestine, Pakistan, Syria, etc and you give me rednecks for 50 years ago burning crosses in the deep south. Yeah, this makes alot of since. You go find about 100 people in the course of the last 100 years to compare to the billion I'm mentioning and the continual sucide bombers in different countries and the beating and raping of women in different countries all led by Muslim beliefs as your example. Good job. I don't see England or Spain or Ireland or Canada or the US allowing women to be stoned to death and hung for cheating or talking bad against a certain religious leader. Until then, your comparison is crap.
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Indiana History Chapter Seven

Did you know the founder of the second Klan was a preacher? I'm sure it's just coincidence.

Google "Klan protestant." I know you probably don't read a whole bunch, but it would do you some good to research these topics which you so ardently defend.

Yes, we live in an age of Muslim brutality. Just as Christianity had its Spanish inquisition (which I'm sure you'll correct me as a Catholic-led campaign, as if Muslim is free of denominations), these times of violence have a history of fluctuating. I was never attempting to make a comparison until you all but forced me to by limiting the argument to such.

Don't blame the religions, blame the head honchos. In this case, it's the Imams. Until you can learn to do that, your argument, like your ability to spell simple words, is crap.
 
#38
#38
And NONE OF YOU HAVE COPIED IT ON THIS THREAD YET AND IF IT DID EXIST ONE OF YOU WOULD HAVE BY NOW. KEEP LOOKING. IT AIN'T THERE.
 
#39
#39
BeecherVol said:
So you are saying is that the Quran does teach to kill "non believers" but there are muslims that do not follow this teaching? I would agree if so.

No different than christians that don't follow all teachings of the Bible? I would agree with that as well.

I think the 'interpretation" card is being over complicated and used in this way to try and make a point.
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Aside from the last sentence, we finally agreed. Any time I've brought up interpretation in this thread, it's usually been followed or preceded by "as with other religious texts." The reason Islam is so extreme can be attributed to the world it's cultivated in. Some of these countries are wastelands. Barbarous "no mans land" rules are far more prevalent in the Middle East than they could ever be in the European nations. When you have that sort of hapless environment, and you throw in such a large religion with a history of war with other major religions (mainly Christianity), then it seems almost logical that things have turned out the way they are. Not good at all, but it's explainable.
 
#41
#41
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
 
#44
#44
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
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Leviticus 20:9--If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1--If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2--When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Now please, shut up.
 
#45
#45
DinkinFlicka said:
Aside from the last sentence, we finally agreed. Any time I've brought up interpretation in this thread, it's usually been followed or preceded by "as with other religious texts." The reason Islam is so extreme can be attributed to the world it's cultivated in. Some of these countries are wastelands. Barbarous "no mans land" rules are far more prevalent in the Middle East than they could ever be in the European nations. When you have that sort of hapless environment, and you throw in such a large religion with a history of war with other major religions (mainly Christianity), then it seems almost logical that things have turned out the way they are. Not good at all, but it's explainable.
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I somewhat agree with this. Those countries allow the teachings to be follow, and in some cases encouraged.

One would have to imagine that would be the reason we fight and have fought against such things.
 
#46
#46
BeecherVol said:
I somewhat agree with this. Those countries allow the teachings to be follow, and in some cases encouraged.

One would have to imagine that would be the reason we fight and have fought against such things.
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I think it goes back to the Imams. They shut the people away from the rest of the word, and allow these extreme ideas taught in their schools to germinate.
 
#47
#47
DinkinFlicka said:
Leviticus 20:9--If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1--If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2--When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Now please, shut up.
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Do you have a New testament quote on that because the old law is dead. I'm looking for New testament. Please provide NT because OT is not what christianity is based on it is what the Jewish belief system is based on.
 
#48
#48
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
Do you have a New testament quote on that because the old law is dead. I'm looking for New testament. Please provide NT because OT is not what christianity is based on it is what the Jewish belief system is based on.
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I knew you'd say that. And it proves that you have no knowledge of how the different schools of Muslim thought derive the teachings of the Quran. Those verses you spewed aren't followed by any of the major denominations.

Judaism, Christianity, Islam... they're all Abrahamic religions. Same principals... different ethnic demographics. Different cultures.

Jeez, open your eyes.

And to grant your wish...
 
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#49
#49
Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran gave a fatwa about Quran 65.4:

“A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man’s four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl’s sister.”

There is a reason for this fatwa, the Prophet Muhammad Married a six-year-old named Aisha and had Sex with the girl by the time she was nine:



That's a teaching. That's modern.
 
#50
#50
Dude you and I are not going to see anywhere near eye to eye on this. I'm just letting it go.
 
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