You must die now ...

#76
#76
DinkinFlicka said:
Beecher, you frankly don't know how much free will and free thought you'd have if you were born and raised in an authoritarian regime. You can't say "I wouldn't have bought into fascism if I was a young German in the late 30's."

Maybe you just misunderstood what point I'm trying to make... or the thought of agreeing with me is making you sick.
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We agree on some things.

Followers of Christ were killed in the Bible.

My point was, if I had the Old Testament, as well as the New to understand, my beliefs would be the same.
 
#78
#78
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
LOL. No it's not a street fight. It's a conversation with a few different views against mind with a moderator who always shows up to egg things on.
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Dude, you're trying to play victim in a theological debate on a forum highly comprised of East Tennessee Christians.

You're e-cutting yourself.
 
#79
#79
And since you asked, yes I was happy he was hurt. Did I want the guy killed or seriously hurt? No. Did I want him off the field. Yes.
 
#81
#81
BeecherVol said:
We agree on some things.

Followers of Christ were killed in the Bible.

My point was, if I had the Old Testament, as well as the New to understand, my beliefs would be the same.
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But what if you were RAISED and TAUGHT to believe that the OT and its rules are every bit as important as the NT and its rules?

do you see where I'm going with this? Muslim extremism is largely due to the imams and how one is raised to interpret the Quran their entire lives.
 
#82
#82
DinkinFlicka said:
But what if you were RAISED and TAUGHT to believe that the OT and its rules are every bit as important as the NT and its rules?

do you see where I'm going with this? Muslim extremism is largely due to the imams and how one is raised to interpret the Quran their entire lives.
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Giving the Old Testament its credit is not wrong, it serves its purpose. As far as its rules, Christ was pretty clear on the path to heaven. It didn't go through the rules, it went through him.

I understand your point. Im not a quran scholar by any means.

Is there any further text in the quran that covers or changes these teachings? I have no knowledge of it, but as I stated before Im not a scholar.
 
#83
#83
Ihatethebuckeyes said:
You took matthew out of context. The word sword was put in by King james as an example word. The word actually translates as wedge, not sword. He is talking about driving a wedge into the family. Try again.
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I thought we were supposed to be taking these things literally, as written per your quote several posts back.
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#84
#84
Yes, literal on the original wording. Not when it is changed. I understand your point though. there is a difference between one word sword or wedge which is what it intended or verse after verse of cutting off hands and heads and raping.

Anyways, I'm letting this go.
 
#87
#87
Anyone who says islam is tolerant of other religions is an outright liar.

EGYPT Islamists lay siege to Coptic church near pyramids - Asia News

Samira Ibrahim Shehata, a volunteer worker at the church, who has been on guard at the Church premises since 11 November, said, "I want to know why a hundred mosques can be built, and not one church”.

About a million Copts live in the Talbiya area, but they have no church.
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One of the worst things about this scenario is that the American taxpayer is footing the bill for the building of some of those mosques.


“Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“It is important for Western countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practicing religion as they see fit”
Barack Hussein Obama

“We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“The contribution of Muslims to the United States are too long to catalog because Muslims are so interwoven into the fabric of our communities and our country”
Barack Hussein Obama

“I have lived in a Muslim-majority country... I know, because I am one of them.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“And since our founding, American Muslims have enriched the United States.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“Moreover, freedom in America is indivisible from the freedom to practice one’s religion. That is why there is a mosque in every state of our union, and over 1,200 mosques within our borders. That is why the U.S. government has gone to court to protect the right of women and girls to wear the hijab, and to punish those who would deny it.”
Barack Hussein Obama

“We are not nor have we even been at war with Islam”
Barack Hussein Obama
 
#88
#88
I understand the world is full of idiots. Christian, Muslim, and Jewish alike. Sorry if I left one out, just looking at the big 3 here. The argument always turns on one point for me. I'm a Christian wary of a church that flies an American flag. I'm not comfortable with the idea of paid clergy (though in times of crisis a professional minister certainly has a place) and I think that most of the atrocities associated with Chrisitianity were essentially over wealth and power as opposed to ideology. For me Christian theology is liberation from government and other constructs of this world. That is just me.

But...even the most liberal and moderate Muslims have a mandate to establish theocracy wherever they are. It is all about limiting individual freedom for the person's own good.
 
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#89
#89
Lexvol said:
I understand the world is full of idiots. Christian, Muslim, and Jewish alike. Sorry if I left one out, just looking at the big 3 here. The argument always turns on one point for me. I'm a Christian wary of a church that flies an American flag. I'm not comfortable with the idea of paid clergy (though in times of crisis a professional minister certainly has a place) and I think that most of the atrocities associated with Chrisitianity were essentially over wealth and power as opposed to ideology. For me Christian theology is liberation from government and other constructs of this world. That is just me.

But...even the most liberal and moderate Muslims have a mandate to establish theocracy wherever they are. It is all about limiting individual freedom for the person's on good.
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Well now there have been many wars fought by Christians of various stripes and others, against the forces is islam that had not so much to do with wealth and power as with freedom from islamic oppression such as having to pay tribute, having to give up young children, the boys to be raised as moslems and to serve in islamic armies, the girls to be concubines in harems and indeed at times to either fight or die or be made slaves.

Otherwise I agree with most of what you say.

From a book that reveals comprehensively what islam is all about:

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.
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"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers."
-Turkey's Islamist Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan that Barack Hussein Obama claims as a 'close friend.'





Uncle_Slam.jpg


“Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together.”
Eugene Ionesco
 
#90
#90
gsvol said:
Well now there have been many wars fought by Christians of various stripes and others, against the forces is islam that had not so much to do with wealth and power as with freedom from islamic oppression such as having to pay tribute, having to give up young children, the boys to be raised as moslems and to serve in islamic armies, the girls to be concubines in harems and indeed at times to either fight or die or be made slaves.

Otherwise I agree with most of what you say.

From a book that reveals comprehensively what islam is all about:




"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers."
-Turkey's Islamist Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan that Barack Hussein Obama claims as a 'close friend.'





Uncle_Slam.jpg


“Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together.”
Eugene Ionesco
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I don't disagree that it is oversimplified a bit.
 
#93
#93
Lexvol said:
But...even the most liberal and moderate Muslims have a mandate to establish theocracy wherever they are. It is all about limiting individual freedom for the person's own good.
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This is exactly the point I was trying to make, for what its worth. Liberal or moderate muslims may not actively practice it, but it is central to the theology.

There are other, not as serious problems I see with the other Abrahemic religions that have consequences to the social welfare of an enlightened society, but they aren't worth going into. Bottomline, Islamic theology poses significant risk civilized society, that's why I focus on it. We now have millions of people believing bronze age ideas that are armed with legit 21st century weapons. It's scary.
 
#94
#94
Lexvol said:
I understand the world is full of idiots. Christian, Muslim, and Jewish alike. Sorry if I left one out, just looking at the big 3 here. The argument always turns on one point for me. I'm a Christian wary of a church that flies an American flag. I'm not comfortable with the idea of paid clergy (though in times of crisis a professional minister certainly has a place) and I think that most of the atrocities associated with Chrisitianity were essentially over wealth and power as opposed to ideology. For me Christian theology is liberation from government and other constructs of this world. That is just me.

But...even the most liberal and moderate Muslims have a mandate to establish theocracy wherever they are. It is all about limiting individual freedom for the person's own good.
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That's well said. I've never had a big problem pastor's being paid, my grandfather has been one for 50 years and never made over $40,000 but when your pastor is making well into the six figures and 55% of your church budget is on the staff's salary there are some serious issues.
 
#95
#95
JZVOL said:
That's well said. I've never had a big problem pastor's being paid, my grandfather has been one for 50 years and never made over $40,000 but when your pastor is making well into the six figures and 55% of your church budget is on the staff's salary there are some serious issues.
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I've really struggled with it for the last few years. I'm an MDiv, and know that there are times when "the flock" needs professional pastoring. Even though I participate in organized religion, I find it hard to believe that the modern day church structure is what it was "intended" to be.

God bless your Grandad.
 
#96
#96
Lexvol said:
I've really struggled with it for the last few years. I'm an MDiv, and know that there are times when "the flock" needs professional pastoring. Even though I participate in organized religion, I find it hard to believe that the modern day church structure is what it was "intended" to be.

God bless your Grandad.
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There is no doubt we (the church) have lost our way. I go to church most Sundays but the best thing that ever happened to my wife and me was a small group (very much a church term there) that meets every Weds night. We go to a couple's home hang out have a little bible study, laugh and build solid relationships. There are about six couples and we have kind of become a family, we are planning our own mission trip, we have a few beers occasionally (don't tell we are Baptists) and I can't help but think this is what "church" should be.
 
#97
#97
TennTradition said:
What does Michael Jackson have to do with us laving Afghanistan?
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That was just mean! :no:

There is too much moon walking going on in Bahrain?? :w00t:

Muslim imam Sheikh Adam who lectures on non-violence arrested for wife beating | Mail Online

The imam is said to have refused to let police officers into his home, but they forced their way past him because they feared the woman's life was in danger.

Sheikh Adam is the Egyptian imam of the Darul Quran Mosque in Munich.

He is facing charges of causing grievous bodily harm and could face a jail term if convicted.

A week ago, he held a lecture at the city's Catholic University entitled 'An Islam which distances itself from violence'.

He also spoke at a recent conference called 'meeting Islam in Europe' and met German justice Sabine Leutheusser Schnarrenberger there.

Adam was assigned bodyguards on the outside because of his calls for Muslims to reject radical Islam. He is also being guarded while on remand from racist prisoners.
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