Please tell me Jones didn't say this...

#76
#76
Unimane said:
"Sometimes you see results that maybe outside people don't see because you're gauged on wins"

If so, I'm about ready to lose my mind. Why win when you can just prattle on about some nonsense regarding "progress",then tell everyone they can't see it, but I can?
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I'm not sure why this is so bad? He's simply saying he's seeing improvement even if it's not showing up in the win column. Seems like standard, we aren't winning but there's still hope, talk that's to be expected with the results thus far.
 
#79
#79
'Boro-vol said:
To me...and many others,the entire statement, even with the omitted phrase, is indicative of a level of comfort with just getting better. 4 million dollar head coaches are paid to win, not improve incrementally. And ther are most certainly not paid to lose by giving away two touchdowns leads late in their 3 biggest games.

There are those that believe I want a new coach. I don't. Yet. It's not time in my opinion, and the upheaval will set us back yet again. But Butch needs to step back, reassess, and humble himself a little. The system that is infallible, is failing him. It can be fixed, but his time to do so is now ticking away.
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This doesn't look like incremental improvement. It looks like someone struggling to plug holes in a leaky dike. Always a new "hole" (excuse)... and always a dike that won't hold water.

You make a good point about the "system". It doesn't appear to be working. For 3 years, WR's haven't gotten open. For 3 years, the OL (even one with great experience and talent) couldn't figure out how to make it work. No QB has excelled in it.
 
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#80
#80
I believe a lot of people are mistaking "improvement" for "Achievement". It is a lot more black and white then everyone is making it out to be.

Has Butch improved the team and talent from when he became coach? Absolutely

has Butch ACHIEVED the goals and standards that we have at UT? Not close.

Again does that mean he won't or can't achieve those goal? No.

Now most will still argue about improvement and that is fine, that is what this board is for but the simple truth is he has improved this team and everything about it. Now it is time to start achieving the goals for UT and that is winning and championships, nothing less.
 
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#81
#81
sjt18 said:
So if you had a kid failing math with a defeatist attitude who didn't even turn in the homework and had a 45% average you wouldn't expect more than just "improvement". I mean if the kid started saying positive things, turning in homework, and then seemed to plateau at 55%... would you be happy with that "light years" improvement?

Some things SEEM to have improved. But Jones still isn't winning and we are STILL getting a steady stream of excuses and rosy promises.

One of my employees who I like quite well has an attendance problem. She's a very good employee otherwise. We have coached and counselled her on several occasions. Each time she sincerely says she's working on it and promises to improve. If she doesn't improve soon, we will have to let her go. She intends to improve... but she's coming up short.

Jones no doubt intends to improve. He's trying. But saying he's better than Dooley doesn't say he's a success or will be one.
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Well its a good damn thing this isn't math class, right? This is football where it takes 22 individuals to come together as 1 team. Soo.. Some differences in a kid making bad grades and a football team.


Also the program IS light years ahead of where it HAS been the better part of a decade. Now, its not where it needs to be I will agree. Jones never promised a natty in year three.. His message has been it will take time.


We aren't getting boat-raced by rivals and embarrassed every weekend currently.. There's improvement. Just gotta find a way to get over the top and win some close games. That will come too IMO

Hopefully start Saturday at 330 et
 
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#82
#82
Volumnus 2011 said:
If you can say with a straight face that you think we played "awful" in two of our three losses, then I'll shake your hand. For the first three quarters against Oklahoma and Florida, we played better than any Tennessee team I've seen in the last 5 years at least.

I'm disappointed as well. I'm very disappointed. But the team has gotten tons better, that just haven't closed against great competition. It's unfortunate, and I want to win now like you all, but I can see flashes of a team that can compete for an SEC championship without much talent in the upperclasses. That's pretty promising.
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Where in my post did I say that the Vols played awful in tow of three losses. I said that were statistically awful in a number of categories.

And I will add that I believe that the "margin of loss" vs FLA and OKL is not that indicative of this improvement that you and others speak of. I think that both OKL and FLA are not great football teams - I think they are both somewhat weaker than prior years. Does that account for everything --- of course not.....

I do think the Vols have more talent this yr than in a number of previous years which by default would lead to some on the field improvement. Plus I do believe that we are notably better in special teams especially punting and returns and coverage. We are somewhat better in the run game because of Hurd's personal development.

But again the statistics are pretty bad in a number of areas.
 
#83
#83
holdemvol said:
How would you have answered the question? He has stated over and over
that he understands he is judged on wins and losses, so what's wrong with pointing to some positives in the same breath and showing confidence in his team?
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Honestly....it's spin. That's all. He knows he's not measuring up, but he's not yet a big enough man to own it, apologize, and fix it. Spin....as carefully crafted, and empty as most of his press statements are he should be running for President.

I probably would have said, on Sunday that I was sorry, I'd let down the fanbase that continues to show up and support us, and that the decisions that were the cause were mine and would be fixed. There would be no half-hearted talk of being close, and of seeing constant improvement. There would be a description of how gutted I was over it, and that the only people more disappointed were the team I'd let down. Period. Butch, has not reached that point yet apparently.

I only gave my opinion because you asked. It may different for others, but that's what I'd have said.
 
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#85
#85
'Boro-vol said:
No...no...you had something you wanted to say about my kid, or was it just implied?
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His schtick is to get personal when you challenge his opinions and especially if you poke holes in them and refuse to bow to his greater "fanship". You do not have to be anti-Jones with him... all you have to do is not be the kool-aid drinker that MedicT thinks all "good fans" should be.

I think he still has me on ignore because I wouldn't let him pass.
 
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#86
#86
sjt18 said:
This doesn't look like incremental improvement. It looks like someone struggling to plug holes in a leaky dike. Always a new "hole" (excuse)... and always a dike that won't hold water.

You make a good point about the "system". It doesn't appear to be working. For 3 years, WR's haven't gotten open. For 3 years, the OL (even one with great experience and talent) couldn't figure out how to make it work. No QB has excelled in it.
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Wouldn't it be great if winning were as easy as pushing that imagined switch marked "success." Jones has himself in a race to succeed before the hounds catch up and he knows it. Lately, the hounds have been gaining ground.
 
#87
#87
sjt18 said:
His schtick is to get personal when you challenge his opinions and especially if you poke holes in them and refuse to bow to his greater "fanship". You do not have to be anti-Jones with him... all you have to do is not be the kool-aid drinker that MedicT thinks all "good fans" should be.

I think he still has me on ignore because I wouldn't let him pass.
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No, no.......my "schtick" is to call BS when I see it. I enjoy the %$#^ out of it, for sure.:)

For instance, you have a button that is easily pushed. That one is labelled "Arrogance." :)

I'm out......back to work........keep those cheap shots coming.:good!:
 
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#89
#89
sjt18 said:
His schtick is to get personal when you challenge his opinions and especially if you poke holes in them and refuse to bow to his greater "fanship". You do not have to be anti-Jones with him... all you have to do is not be the kool-aid drinker that MedicT thinks all "good fans" should be.

I think he still has me on ignore because I wouldn't let him pass.
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Seems like several here have MrT's number.:good!:
 
#90
#90
holdemvol said:
"And I get that". If you are going to use a quote for the sake of piling on, at least use the entire quote.
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That doesn't fit the agenda.
It is absolutely possible to see progress in a loss. Every and I mean EVERY coach worth their salt would agree with this.
The thing is those of us who aren't in the "FAHR Butch" camp who are also disappointed in the record are lumped into the category of sheep.
 
#91
#91
Unimane said:
"Sometimes you see results that maybe outside people don't see because you're gauged on wins"

If so, I'm about ready to lose my mind. Why win when you can just prattle on about some nonsense regarding "progress",then tell everyone they can't see it, but I can?
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Pretty standard comments when your losing.
 
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#93
#93
The context of CBJ's response is that he's looking at a graph that starts at sh**bucket and ends at a year-in year-out championship-caliber program. From that perspective there has been unquestionable progress. Will he get all the way there? Don't know, hope so. But you can't look at a 5-game window anywhere on that graph and extrapolate to the whole. Or even cite it as evidence of a plateau – it's just not enough data.

When we get back to being that championship-caliber program, under CBJ or whoever else, the W count will pretty much be the sole metric. We still want the W's now and the L's still suck a** and are excruciating – and they do count – but in a limited sample they're not the sole metric of the program's trajectory.
 
#94
#94
patrick said:
Where in my post did I say that the Vols played awful in tow of three losses. I said that were statistically awful in a number of categories.

And I will add that I believe that the "margin of loss" vs FLA and OKL is not that indicative of this improvement that you and others speak of. I think that both OKL and FLA are not great football teams - I think they are both somewhat weaker than prior years. Does that account for everything --- of course not.....

I do think the Vols have more talent this yr than in a number of previous years which by default would lead to some on the field improvement. Plus I do believe that we are notably better in special teams especially punting and returns and coverage. We are somewhat better in the run game because of Hurd's personal development.

But again the statistics are pretty bad in a number of areas.
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To clarify, you never said they played awful in those games, but your dissatisfaction with their performances tells me that you don't think they're playing well and have awful statistics. If you don't think they've played well and you think they have awful statistics, I wanted to make sure you didn't think they'd played awful.

Also, Oklahoma lost 5 games last year and Florida only won 4. Are you sure you think that the 2015 versions of these teams aren't better that prior years? I certainly don't.
 
#95
#95
orangefreak21 said:
Well its a good damb thing this isn't math class, right? This is football where it takes 22 individuals to come together as 1 team. Soo.. Some differences in a kid making bad grades and a football team.
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You do understand that the analogy isn't to the team but to Jones, right?

If you want to claim he has "improved" the program then that's fine. In many respects, I agree.

But he is STILL earning a big, fat F when it comes to Saturdays.


Also the program IS light years ahead of where it HAS been the better part of a decade. Now, its not where it needs to be I will agree. Jones never promised a natty in year three.. His message has been it will take time.
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Pure BS. No one asked for a "natty". We asked for tangible improvement ON THE FIELD... as measured in WINS.

He has HAD time. Enough for a championship? Not likely. Enough to win the 3 games he's lost this year? ABSOLUTELY... or at the absolute bare minimum one of them.

I'm sorry but all across CFB you see proof after proof that it doesn't take 4, 5, 6... years to see REAL improvement in wins.


We aren't getting boat-raced by rivals and embarrassed every weekend currently.. There's improvement. Just gotta find a way to get over the top and win some close games. That will come too IMO

Hopefully start Saturday at 330 et
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So moral victories are good enough, right?

Sorry, I just don't agree. I don't think the standard for Jones in year three should be any lower than the one for Dooley.... many of you seem to.
 
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#96
#96
ReaderVol said:
That doesn't fit the agenda.
It is absolutely possible to see progress in a loss. Every and I mean EVERY coach worth their salt would agree with this.
The thing is those of us who aren't in the "FAHR Butch" camp who are also disappointed in the record are lumped into the category of sheep.
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I'll agree, you can see progress in losses sometimes, but when you have three meltdowns already that's something to be concerned about. Going 2 of 3 in the losses would have NOBODY questioning Jones.
 
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#97
#97
orangefreak21 said:
You forgot the other quote...


Inky Johnson called me yesterday and reminded that everyone wants the prize but no one wants the process." - Jones
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Don't forge the last part...

Even my 5 year old knows you for go for two when up by 12 in the 4th quarter. - Johnson
 
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#98
#98
Unimane said:
"Sometimes you see results that maybe outside people don't see because you're gauged on wins"

If so, I'm about ready to lose my mind. Why win when you can just prattle on about some nonsense regarding "progress",then tell everyone they can't see it, but I can?
Click to expand...
Who cares! Nothing to see or read here!
 
#99
#99
UT_King said:
Because Butch is a loser.

Nothing matters but wins... and if he is to dumb.
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Too dumb*

Here's a pointer for the future: if you wish to call someone stupid or dumb, please make sure you don't in turn make yourself look like a dumba$$ because you can't pass 9th English. Thanks.
 
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#100
#100
checkerboards09 said:
I'll agree, you can see progress in losses sometimes, but when you have three meltdowns already that's something to be concerned about. Going 2 of 3 in the losses would have NOBODY questioning Jones.
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I have no problem judging a coach on his record. But to take a part of a quote and spin it like the OP did is silly at best. Clearly Jones was saying he's seeing progress even though they're losing and he understands that's how he's judged. But you'd never know that if you only read the OP.
 
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