Miles or Jones

#251
#251
VKAman said:
Re: program building, where was Oklahoma State when Miles got there? I don't think people saying "He wasn't that great at OK State" have done their homework, at all.
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They were 21-24 in the 4 years prior to his arrival.

The biggest improvement he made was he found a way to beat OU in his first two years. He left a team in decline with a 7-5 record that won only 4 the next year and had to be rebuilt. Gundy replaced him and did rebuild the Cowboys to a level of success they've never known.

I disagree with this. Tennessee doesn't have the in-state talent LSU does, obviously, but Oklahoma State considers top-30 recruiting classes a success. Tennessee, even under Dooley for the most part, is much closer to LSU.
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No problem. We'll just disagree.
 
#252
#252
Bottom line- I would consider turning in my fan card if UT hired Miles.

I don't think it will be an issue because I doubt Jones is going anywhere...
 
#253
#253
miles is good,lets not forget how many players he has put in the NFL the last couple of years,that is why LSU is looking like they are right now
 
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#254
#254
sjt18 said:
They were 21-24 in the 4 years prior to his arrival.

The biggest improvement he made was he found a way to beat OU in his first two years. He left a team in decline with a 7-5 record that won only 4 the next year and had to be rebuilt. Gundy replaced him and did rebuild the Cowboys to a level of success they've never known.
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They had one winning record between 1988 (Barry Sanders) and 2000 (3-8), before he had three in four years. The only year he didn't was year one, when he finished 4-7 but beat the previously 10-1, top-5, defending national champion Sooners in Norman. Then came the aforementioned three winning seasons, including another win over another top-5 Oklahoma team the following year.

Gundy coached under him as OC. It's somewhat reminiscent of Kelly and Butch at Central Michigan, where Butch achieved the best records, but it was Kelly (and Miles) that changed the culture of the program from consistently losing to consistently winning--and showed their successors how to lead in the process. I'd say that's the hard part of building a program, and I think Gundy himself would say many of the same things.
 
#255
#255
I think Miles is in the class of Richt. They underachieve the talent they have routinely and often because of poor personal decisions whether it be in game, hiring decisions, discipline, etc.

I wouldn't want either at UT and believe it would be a disaster.
 
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#256
#256
VKAman said:
They had one winning record between 1988 (Barry Sanders) and 2000 (3-8), before he had three in four years. The only year he didn't was year one, when he finished 4-7 but beat the previously 10-1, top-5, defending national champion Sooners in Norman. Then came the aforementioned three winning seasons, including another win over another top-5 Oklahoma team the following year.

Gundy coached under him as OC. It's somewhat reminiscent of Kelly and Butch at Central Michigan, where Butch achieved the best records, but it was Kelly (and Miles) that changed the culture of the program from consistently losing to consistently winning--and showed their successors how to lead in the process. I'd say that's the hard part of building a program, and I think Gundy himself would say many of the same things.
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Which is exactly why all this Les Miles talk is hot garbage. Changing the culture is exactly what Butch is doing. We have seen steady, albeit, slow improvement throughout the program. From recruiting to the classroom to UT's win/loss record. Some of you are insufferable in your want to ditch a coach that took over a program that was in the worst shape - ever. CBJ has done a fantastic job of turning it around,,,but but but we didn't beat florida,,oh waahh. But but but Miles has a better record. Give me a break.
 
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#257
#257
sjt18 said:
I think Miles is in the class of Richt. They underachieve the talent they have routinely and often because of poor personal decisions whether it be in game, hiring decisions, discipline, etc.

I wouldn't want either at UT and believe it would be a disaster.
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Would you call beating the defending national champions at their place with a 3-7 team underachieving?

I think he's more like Barnes. He became a punchline in some ways at his last stop because of snapshots--"Barnes couldn't win with Durant! Les Miles eats grass!"--to where people forget the accomplishments that got them those jobs in the first place.
 
#258
#258
KoachKletus said:
Which is exactly why all this Les Miles talk is hot garbage. Changing the culture is exactly what Butch is doing. We have seen steady, albeit, slow improvement throughout the program. From recruiting to the classroom to UT's win/loss record. Some of you are insufferable in your want to ditch a coach that took over a program that was in the worst shape - ever. CBJ has done a fantastic job of turning it around,,,but but but we didn't beat florida,,oh waahh. But but but Miles has a better record. Give me a break.
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When I talk about changing the culture from a losing one, I'm talking about taking bad programs--Stanford, Oklahoma State, Duke, South Carolina, etc.--and making them respectable ones. I'm not talking about taking a traditional powerhouse like Tennessee and bringing them back to 7-4.

No one is going to ditch him right now. I'm simply saying I'd take Miles over him. Saban and Harbaugh, too. You sound like you're saying you would take him over all of those guys. Is that accurate?
 
#259
#259
Butch has two things going for him is age and he's managed to do a great job recruiting nationally (something Miles does not have to do)...at least according to Booger McFarland. But coaching accounts for something...'Horns has about the same or better talent that LSU, so Strong should've been able to win right away there, right? But somehow Tx is on on a 3-4 yr rebuild. So we have to give props for Miles success at LSU regardless of how "easy" it is to win 9 games there.
 
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#262
#262
Sarms58 said:
We didn't win a championship in the seventies...Dickey won one in 1969 then we went 16 years until Johnny stumbled into one in 1985...Phil won two titles in 16 years...we've won 5 in the last 45 years...
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That is sad for a program like TN
 
#263
#263
jbr82 said:
That is sad for a program like TN
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Its becoming more difficult too. In those days you shared conference titles. Now with more teams in the SEC and teams that historically irrelevant with modern TV and scholarships limited the players are divided more evenly and kids that get to the powers go to second tier schools to play in SEC. But most importantly only 1 of 14 claims conference titles now. Where as out of like 10 schools in 80s 2-4 teams might share.
 
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#264
#264
Jones is doing good so why trade him in. I do love miles go for it coaching philosophy. But I'm halfway in with cbj not gonna start over with another dream coach
 
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