Swains thoughts on 3 P's eligibility

[KBVol]

Folks, he showed up for every game as a freshman in the SEC and ended up carrying the bulk of the running load before midpoint in the season including the bowl game. Injury prone is not physically able to answer the bell during the season(s). Hurd answered every bell on our 2013 schedule with a very suspect OL, therefore per my standard was very far removed from being classified as injury prone.

Not questioning the kids toughness, he's a beast. But factually speaking, he left HS with a shoulder injury requiring surgery, he played 1 series vs UTC because many thought he had reinjured the shoulder, he didn't finish the Vandy game due to a concussion (took a helmet to the jaw iirc), and he didn't participate in any live contact this Spring due to a shoulder injury.

I'm certainly not questioning how tough Jalen is, that'd be ridiculous, kid's a warrior. But even the toughest of players can suffer frequent injuries or a recurrence of the same nagging injury, through no fault of their own...to this point, that seems to be the case with Jalen IMHO.

 

[LA Vol]

Having a stable of backs is essential for the grind of the SEC. We were flirting with disaster last year, running Hurd and Dobbs like we were forced to do. Kamara will be a huge help (and possibly Kelly, too), but we could use more depth. We need to protect Dobbs and spell Hurd. An injury to either one will derail our season.

 

[Sin City Vol]

For those that listen to Swain, you know that (as a former player) he gets a lot of access to things in the UTAD.
He often states that he knows a lot more than he says on the radio. So, sometimes he throws out just a few tidbits and you have to read between the lines.
On Paulk, Pig, Pearson, here is what I gleaned:

Paulk - Vols must have 3 reliable RB's because of Hurds often injured - if Kelly looks good, no Paulk, if not - yes.
Pig - Internet rumors of academic problems - he has also heard this - hmmm - says Pig trying to work with several instructors to take some makeup exams.
Pearson - this was the most positive - fairly certain he will be back - case against Von very weak.

I don't agree with the Paulk thing...if he's off the team then he's off. There's no wishy washy bs based on depth. All that shows players and fans is the teams needs are above the teams rules. This isn't OSU or Bama, CBJ set the standards and players need to meet them.

 

[Sin City Vol]

I don't hit women, never have but I don't think its a crime to the point that it should ruin any chance someone has to educate themselves or pursue their lifelong dream. We all make mistakes and most believe in second chances but many don't in this case. I do.

I do believe that any crime, misdeed, etc should be punished and the punishment, whatever it is, served BEFORE they are allowed to move forward with their life. But they should be allowed to move on AFTER THAT.

I hope that the young man can pursue his dream at some point, one year is enough for me.

How do you expect these "tough guys" who slap around women to learn if coaches and teams keep giving them 2nd and 3rd chances??? What if that woman was your daughter, wife, sister, mother etc??? Would you want them to get a slap on.the wrist just for the good of the big Orange??

 

[LA Vol]

CBJ's policy is to indefinitely suspend players while they are under investigation for a crime. When no charges are filed and the investigation is closed, CBJ has allowed players back on the team. So unless that has changed, the precedent would be to reinstate Paulk, if he wants to return and is academically eligible.

 

[walkenvol]

How do you expect these "tough guys" who slap around women to learn if coaches and teams keep giving them 2nd and 3rd chances??? What if that woman was your daughter, wife, sister, mother etc??? Would you want them to get a slap on.the wrist just for the good of the big Orange??

Why are you so hung up on the alledged victim's gender? Would you feel any different about it if it was your son, brother, father etc who got slapped around?
:loco:

 

[utvolpj]

Why are you so hung up on the alledged victim's gender? Would you feel any different about it if it was your son, brother, father etc who got slapped around?
:loco:

Why are you being ridiculous and pretending it doesn't matter? Does it make you feel manly to slap a female around?

 

[walkenvol]

Why are you being ridiculous and pretending it doesn't matter? Does it make you feel manly to slap a female around?

Can't say as I've never done it.

I can safely say I wouldn't feel any more manly slapping around a weaker individual than myself regardless of their gender, race, ethic origin, sexual preference, etc. Welcome to 2015 sir.

:hi:

 

[utvolpj]

Can't say as I've never done it.

I can safely say I wouldn't feel any more manly slapping around a weaker individual than myself regardless of their gender, race, ethic origin, sexual preference, etc. Welcome to 2015 sir.

:hi:

There's a difference in gender that may or may not exist with race, etc. That has zero to do with the current year. Far too many "men" fail to recognize that fact. Based on some posts in this thread it seems you're one of them. Congrats

 

[zidanefan]

Pig didn't come here to play school. It sounds like he isn't as interested in his class work as some of our other players, which makes sense since he has NFL written all over him.
As a student I didn't have to take science classes past my soph year bc my major was in the college of business. Pig's major is in football, professors should allow him, and all athletes wanting to go pro, some leniency on his classes

 

[fade route]

I don't hit women, never have but I don't think its a crime to the point that it should ruin any chance someone has to educate themselves or pursue their lifelong dream. We all make mistakes and most believe in second chances but many don't in this case. I do.

I do believe that any crime, misdeed, etc should be punished and the punishment, whatever it is, served BEFORE they are allowed to move forward with their life. But they should be allowed to move on AFTER THAT.

I hope that the young man can pursue his dream at some point, one year is enough for me.

Sorry, but as a dad of 2 daughters, I think I would have a serious problem watching the thug who hit them run up and down the field to the applause of thousands all in the name of "letting them finish their education"

 

[AboveAllNations]

CBJ's policy is to indefinitely suspend players while they are under investigation for a crime. When no charges are filed and the investigation is closed, CBJ has allowed players back on the team. So unless that has changed, the precedent would be to reinstate Paulk, if he wants to return and is academically eligible.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Yes, Coleman Thomas was suspended indefinitely after he was arrested and under investigation, but he maintained his innocence throughout and was reinstated immediately after the police determined he had nothing to do with the crime. In other words, Thomas was actually innocent, not merely "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" under the law.

Treyvon Paulk wasn't prosecuted for what he did, but it sure doesn't look like he was innocent. If he was, he would've been reinstated immediately just like Thomas.

 

[DeerPark12]

it happened in september and 6 months later Jones is saying its an ongoing process. Doesnt sound like a coach who is dead set on getting rid of a guy.

He did not say it was an "ongoing process," unless I have missed something.

In his press conference before spring practice, Jones was asked if there had been any contact with Paulk and he said no.

You can watch the exchange for yourself right here at the 9:55 mark: Jones Pre-Spring Press Conference At Noon - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics

Doesnt matter if an individual presses charges or not, the DA will pick up these cases and prosecute them
if they believe they have a case, regardless of the "victim's" wishes.

Only in rare and extreme cases. Most of the time, if a victim declines to prosecute, it never makes it to the DA, it stops with the police report that says the victim declined to prosecute.

CBJ's policy is to indefinitely suspend players while they are under investigation for a crime. When no charges are filed and the investigation is closed, CBJ has allowed players back on the team. So unless that has changed, the precedent would be to reinstate Paulk, if he wants to return and is academically eligible.

Except he was not suspended, he was dismissed. The investigation of Paulk's case was over after a week.

 

[drylo]

Sorry, but as a dad of 2 daughters, I think I would have a serious problem watching the thug who hit them run up and down the field to the applause of thousands all in the name of "letting them finish their education"

Don't disagree, but I'd also have a hard time watching the kid who cheated on my daughter run up and down the field to thunderous applause. That's not exactly the most rational way to make a decision. Also, there are two sides to every story, and I'm not sure if Paiulk is a thug or not--this certainly wasn't a case where he randomly attacked somebody on the street.

 

[LA Vol]

I remember that Paulk's case was quickly shuttered, but I don't remember CBJ saying Paulk was dismissed permanently. If so, why is there ambiguity about it? Why doesn't CBJ say Paulk is gone, has been gone and will not be back. Issue closed, no more questions.

 

[LA Vol]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Yes, Coleman Thomas was suspended indefinitely after he was arrested and under investigation, but he maintained his innocence throughout and was reinstated immediately after the police determined he had nothing to do with the crime. In other words, Thomas was actually innocent, not merely "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" under the law.

Treyvon Paulk wasn't prosecuted for what he did, but it sure doesn't look like he was innocent. If he was, he would've been reinstated immediately just like Thomas.

I was approaching this as a matter of general policy. Lane and the freshman are probably better examples. When the investigations were complete and charges were either dismissed or not brought, they rejoined the team. When Paulk's investigation was complete and charges were not pursued, he was apparently dismissed from the team.

We seldom know all the facts in these cases, so we're not in a position to judge innocence or guilt. That's where a clear, consistent policy comes into play. I thought we had one, but perhaps not.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Pig didn't come here to play school. It sounds like he isn't as interested in his class work as some of our other players, which makes sense since he has NFL written all over him.
As a student I didn't have to take science classes past my soph year bc my major was in the college of business. Pig's major is in football, professors should allow him, and all athletes wanting to go pro, some leniency on his classes

Wow! Just Wow!

 

[Nasavol]

So in your opinion, if a player is accused of assualt but never prosecuted then he should be permanently kicked out of the program? Sounds as if you want to be sexist and make it only accused assalt against a female though? What if it was against an alternative sexed individual? Appears to be a case of sliding ethics to me.

We had a accused/reformed sex offender on our team in 2010-14 who never caused any embarassment to the program. Who's to say Paulk's not reformed if indeed he was guilty in the first place as you assume since he was never arrested nor convicted?

I'd prefer to allow the coach to use his judgement concerning removing players from the team. IMO, TIFWIW, PETA

He wasn't just an accused, he was a participant. Just wanted to be accurate on that.

 

[AboveAllNations]

He did not say it was an "ongoing process," unless I have missed something.

He said it in a February press conference:

"It's an ongoing process, and we'll continue to evaluate that situation as time continues to move on, but right now he's still not a part of our football team in terms of any team-related activities or anything," Jones told the Times Free Press.

"We'll continue to look into that situation, just like we do with every single player, and certain criteria, is that being met, and then what's best for Tennessee football and for Treyvon in moving forward as well."

The "best for Tennessee football" language seems to confirm Swain's speculation that Paulk's return depends at least in part on our situation at runningback. That's disappointing to me since I think whether or not he returns to the team shouldn't have anything to do with football.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

The thing we agree on here is I can decide whether or not to hire them vs Volnation or some other group make that decision for me.



Once again we agree on this point, CBJ is the coach and knows the players and the facts better than anyone. We need to allow him to make these decision vs Volnation or some other group making the rules for him. We already have the NCAA, the government, and the university's rules in place.



You're showing your true colors here as you don't believe in equality between the sexes. You view women as always being weak and requiring protection. Guess what, there aren't many males on the UT campus who could hold their own with most of these football players if the player decided to slap them around. How is it any worse of an assault based on what's in their jeans?

CBJ is ultimately responsible for the UT football program. If he allows a bunch of thugs to remain in the program it will eventually cost him his job. I think I will trust him to make the best call on who should stay and who should go instead of some politically correct do gooder group who wants to impose their ideas on everyone else. CBJ's been doing a pretty good job of it so far. :good!:

Can you please define "do gooder" for me? It seems to me that a person who "does good" by definition, is better than a person who "does bad". Moral ambiguity is a cancer to humanity. I am not talking about religious dogma here either. I am speaking of actions that are considered wrong by any civilized society. Common sense just ain't that common anymore. I do agree however that mercy and forgiveness based on good judgement, are a absolute necessity to any functioning society. If a morally weak person feels that society will not give them the chance to become a better person, they have no reason to be a better person.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

He wasn't just an accused, he was a participant. Just wanted to be accurate on that.

There is lot more to that story than that. Hood was 12 years old. By all accounts he was very traumatized by the event also. It was a sad story. Just "wanted to be clear on that".

 

[vol-un-tear]

Using this logic: TAKE HIM BACK!!!!!!! What do we have to lose. The do gooders and holier than thou crowd are going to complain anyway. Hitting a woman is an assault and should be punished if it happened. Is kicking him off the team the right punishment? Or, should it be jail time? If it were serious enough he would be in jail and he is not.

There are lady vols involved. I would think Dreya Carter would want Paulk tossed.

 

[walkenvol]

There's a difference in gender that may or may not exist with race, etc. That has zero to do with the current year. Far too many "men" fail to recognize that fact. Based on some posts in this thread it seems you're one of them. Congrats

Probably not wise of me to disagree with a moderator, but there are women in this world who can probably slap every Volnation member around. While females are not typically as strong as males, some are and soon we will even see them in our military special forces. The root problem most are wanting to ignore is a bully slapping around a weaker individual, gender neutral. There was a time in this country when women were happy to be treated differently then men but times have changed whether you agree with our current culture or not. You can desire the good old days, but they are gone.

 

[walkenvol]

There is lot more to that story than that. Hood was 12 years old. By all accounts he was very traumatized by the event also. It was a sad story. Just "wanted to be clear on that".

Not condemning him as by all appearances Mr. Hood is a solid citizen. I believe he serves as a good example of why we should allow the coaches to determine the quality of the players to remain in the program instead of the "boot anybody that's had any problems at all" group to create the criteria.

I trust CBJ to decide Paulk's future at UT. CBJ has shown he'll recruit some even better if a player doesn't want to fall in line.

 

[walkenvol]

He said it in a February press conference:



The "best for Tennessee football" language seems to confirm Swain's speculation that Paulk's return depends at least in part on our situation at runningback. That's disappointing to me since I think whether or not he returns to the team shouldn't have anything to do with football.

I think it's a reach to assume "best for TN football" to specifically mean "is the player needed on the field". Could mean the player is contributing to the overall program outside of game day and growing as a person who will represent UT well in the future.