Years 4 and 5

#76
#76
OK one more post then I'm out.

Having a healthy debate on the topic when we lose is a good thing. I'm not going to offer support for either side. But instead what we as a fan base should NEVER accept is complacency which is what a few are yelling about in here.

Our program is long and storied and rooted in successes. We were strong and competive in the old Southern Conf and we have been strong and competitive in the SEC. And we will be again.

The time to truly worry about TN Football is when you lose games and nobody is upset. Then, you can truly stick a fork in us we are done.
 
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#77
#77
AllVolinGA said:
And I think the criticism is based on their perceived idea of how a football game/season should go, rather than the reality of what actually occurs. The reality is Mz was better than us Saturday night. Their players made the plays when they had to, ours did not. It happens. Constant criticism is not sign of liking someone.
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Missouri is better than a lot of SEC teams. They won east last year and if they beat Arkansas this week will win it again.

your record defines a program and they are winning division championships..
 
#78
#78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjt18 View Post

So Saban can take over from Shula who was little if any better than Dooley... and win in year two.

Freeze can take over a complete train wreck at Ole Miss and compete for the West in year 3.

Sumlin takes over for a guy who couldn't win and didn't even recruit all that well and wins right away.

Franklin takes over a "never was" program at Vandy and sets program high water marks within 3 years.

But at UT with some of the best facilities in the country... not only do you have to act as if you are rebuilding the roster from scratch... you have to wait until the first class is either graduated or RS SRs before expecting results.... ?

Gotcha.

volpreacher said:
All those above had a full team of upper classmen too.
A lot of you guys if Ole Miss or Auburn fans would be ready to fire Malzahn and Friese since their losses lately.
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I count approx. 48 returning JRs and SRs as being '015 upper classmen, plus the 30+ sophomores most of whom will obviously have had good playing time behind them as freshmen from this year plus a top 10 freshman class (who will likely produce equally if not greater than this year's freshmen) -- what a great opp for this coaching Staff to get +2 or more W's in '015. Maybe my #s are off.
 
#79
#79
There are currently 6 SEC teams ranked in the polls. Each team's overall record, number of true freshman, and number of juniors and seniors in the two deep on offense and defense. () = Sagarin SOS.

Bama 10-1, 4 Frosh, 27 Jr. - Sr., (5)

MSU 10-1, 0 Frosh, 29 Jr. - Sr., (39)

UGA 9-2, 10 Frosh, 21 Jr. Sr., (12)

Mizz 9-2, 0 Frosh, 27 Jr.- Sr., (24)

Aub 8-3, 3 Frosh, 30 Jr. - Sr., (1)

OM 8-3, 6 Frosh, 26 Jr.- Sr., (8)


UT 5-6, 13 Frosh, 16 Jr. - Sr., (3)
 
#80
#80
Apparently, according to a ton of our fans, because we're the great University of Tennessee so getting this team back to an SECCG should be a walk in the park... sorry but in this league with this schedule and youth its being unreseaonable and unrealistic.
 
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#81
#81
Vol_is_Lyfe18 said:
What Jones inherited is the worst situation imaginable to any college football fan. It has never been as bad, and never will be again.
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Sure. An NFL offensive line with senior RB and junior QB in year one and also no NCAA sanctions or threat of sanctions to hurt recruiting, and new best in country facilities nearly complete (to help recruiting).
Actually, what Butch inherited was quite good or at least well above average (in terms of what people usually find after someone is fired).
 
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#82
#82
sjt18 said:
Yeah but last year they were too slow... and installing a new system... and young at WR... and thin... and... and... and...

As I said earlier, if you are determined to find excuses... you'll find them.
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Mike Tomlin said it best. "Excuses are the tools of the incompetent."
 
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#83
#83
fade route said:
Unfortunately, too many only use Freeze, Malzahn, and Saban as references for why it should happen in year 2, or year 3 at the latest.
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Butch is a system coach. His system requires a certain type of players and until he accumulates them, don't expect great seasons. People don't want to hear that, but that is the fact.

Other coaches build their schemes around their team's talent and use it ti scheme and create mismatches. That s the mark of great game day coaches.
 
#84
#84
oregonvol said:
Why are we the only program in America where coaches need 5 years before they can be evaluated? How often do coaches show very little improvement over 4 years and then suddenly make a big leap in year 5? Why does Butch Jones need more time than coaches at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, etc?

If your coach needs a roster stocked with 4 star recruits and 5th year seniors in order to field a competitive squad then your coach is terrible.
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We were getting beat by Vandy and KY. Hell Mizzou is 3-0 vs UT. Jones might as well have taken over wake forest. The cupboard was bare for sure.
 
#85
#85
TGVol said:
Sure. An NFL offensive line with senior RB and junior QB in year one and also no NCAA sanctions or threat of sanctions to hurt recruiting, and new best in country facilities nearly complete (to help recruiting).
Actually, what Butch inherited was quite good or at least well above average (in terms of what people usually find after someone is fired).
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Shoulda used blue font
 
#86
#86
It doesn't matter what Butch Jones does at Tennessee, you have some people that will never be happy and want him gone because he wasn't THAT big name coach.
 
#88
#88
volfan51128 said:
Realistically, Butch took over when the cupboard was bare. Funny, my Dad and I had this same conversation prior to this season. We had a bet...I said 6-6 and he said 7-5. If things unfold the way I think they will next Saturday...my Dad owes me some food as that's what our bet was.

Next season we will be a lot better. IÂ’m saying realistically 7-5 maybe 8-4. If you think anything different...so be it.

ItÂ’s possible to be better, just not seeing anything better than 8-4.

The 2016 season is the one to watch out for. All this young talent will be refined by then, and we should have some talented depth at all positions. If this staff stays together; they will be a force to be reckoned with at the SEC and national level.
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9-3 next season, with probable losses to Alabama, UF and another somewhere along the line. The good news is Team 119 should have a decent shot at going undefeated at home.
 
#89
#89
Vol_is_Lyfe18 said:
We don't start 22 freshmen and the classes Franklin inherited were worse than any of the classes Kiffin, Dooley or Jones inherited.
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Never said we started 22, said we played 22. As far as what Franklin inherited, he actually inherited more/better players overall. All you have to do is go look at how many of the players that Kiffin and Dooley recruited that actually stayed around for more than a couple years. Look at that amount of senior's on senior night as an example.
 
#92
#92
vol66 said:
There are currently 6 SEC teams ranked in the polls. Each team's overall record, number of true freshman, and number of juniors and seniors in the two deep on offense and defense. () = Sagarin SOS.

Bama 10-1, 4 Frosh, 27 Jr. - Sr., (5)

MSU 10-1, 0 Frosh, 29 Jr. - Sr., (39)

UGA 9-2, 10 Frosh, 21 Jr. Sr., (12)

Mizz 9-2, 0 Frosh, 27 Jr.- Sr., (24)

Aub 8-3, 3 Frosh, 30 Jr. - Sr., (1)

OM 8-3, 6 Frosh, 26 Jr.- Sr., (8)


UT 5-6, 13 Frosh, 16 Jr. - Sr., (3)
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Sums it up pretty good. But low football IQ posters like oregonvol only know Ws and Ls. they're not smart enough to incorporate facts that give context.
 
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#93
#93
The goal is to see steady improvement ever year. Not many teams replacing both lines, in fact i believe we were the only one who had to replace everybody.. So let's say we get that 6th regular season win against Vandy.. So improvement next year would be IMO a two game jump to 8 regular season with a chance at 9 with a bowl win.. I think we'll compete for the east next year. Not sure we can win it but i think we'll be in the conversation.. Been a while since we could even say that.. Too early yet to start complaining about the coaches.
 
#94
#94
The Tall Gguy said:
Oh no--this is not acceptable...You sunshine pumpers said that Year 3 was when it started counting. You can't take it back now. Year 3. That is when Butch must prove himself. No more excuses.
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That's what I'm sayin! Forever all I heard was year 3, year 3, year 3... Now it's year 4 or 5?
 
#95
#95
Realistically it's going to take 8-9 recruiting classes for Butch to get his players and system in place. That's just where we are at this point. Blame in on Dooley and Fulmer.
 
#96
#96
Nationdom said:
Realistically it's going to take 8-9 recruiting classes for Butch to get his players and system in place. That's just where we are at this point. Blame in on Dooley and Fulmer.
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Obviously, you have been smoking crack or something!
 
#97
#97
the roster has been bare.. it was light on OL when Fulmer left, we had multiple defections when Fulmer was let go, the Kiffin fiasco where all of his recruits didnt pan out, the failed Dooley experiment, we now have a COACH!!! He gets a pass for a few extra years as long as he keeps recruiting like he has been we are going to be GREAT!!! SOON!!! The FIGHT in this team is AWESOME! They fight harder than any team i can remember. They are Young and adding the depth over the next few years is going to make us the BEAST OF THE EAST!!!
 
#98
#98
vol66 said:
There are currently 6 SEC teams ranked in the polls. Each team's overall record, number of true freshman, and number of juniors and seniors in the two deep on offense and defense. () = Sagarin SOS.

Bama 10-1, 4 Frosh, 27 Jr. - Sr., (5)

MSU 10-1, 0 Frosh, 29 Jr. - Sr., (39)

UGA 9-2, 10 Frosh, 21 Jr. Sr., (12)

Mizz 9-2, 0 Frosh, 27 Jr.- Sr., (24)

Aub 8-3, 3 Frosh, 30 Jr. - Sr., (1)

OM 8-3, 6 Frosh, 26 Jr.- Sr., (8)


UT 5-6, 13 Frosh, 16 Jr. - Sr., (3)
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Now if you really want to drive your point home.....list the Jr's and Srs

It blows my mind that so many posters here cannot understand the state of things inherited by Jones. Everyone wants to blindly look at recruiting rankings over the years without looking into all the defections and etc.
 
#99
#99
sjt18 said:
The OL is poor and you could probably argue that an absence of more OL's is a critical factor in them not being outstanding. But they aren't even mediocre. And that doesn't quite explain why the OL stank last year too. Remember 3 of those guys are now NFL starters. Tiny would be in the NFL if not for his injury.

Shula did NOT recruit very well. Very mediocre His discipline was even worse within the program. Saban cleaned house in that first year then rebuilt very quickly.
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His classes were 24, 18, and 11 - I believe these are the correct years. Not certain that is horrible. My argument was not that he was a good coach but that the roster was not as depleted. Last year the O Line was not horrible but we had limited offensive weapons. Below average QB play and limited playmakers on the outside. Also, that line was never great at run blocking. This line just lacks talent or experience across the board.

Dooley did a horrible job of planning ahead to future roster needs, meaning the roster was not set up for success. Look at Mizzou.
 
#100
#100
Carl Pickens said:
Now if you really want to drive your point home.....list the Jr's and Srs

It blows my mind that so many posters here cannot understand the state of things inherited by Jones. Everyone wants to blindly look at recruiting rankings over the years without looking into all the defections and etc.
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Mizzou is the best example. Players are better after 3 or 4 years in a program.
 
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