“Fair Catch” explained

#101
#101
bamawriter said:
I think you mean the center judge. But either way, unless they've changed it recently, only the head ref is wired to the booth. That's why the head ref is always relaying notes to the umpire during a review: the umpire can't hear the replay official. The other refs are wired to each other, so it's definitely possible that another official was telling the center judge that he saw the fair catch.
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the center judge was wired to the booth. you can see him talking into his mic in the replay as he walked the ball back from the 20 to the 4.
 
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#103
#103
which player signaled? do we have a #? I don't see it at all when I watch the replay. Just see Dee putting his hands to the side.
 
#104
#104
barney said:
the center judge was wired to the booth. you can see him talking into his mic in the replay as he walked the ball back from the 20 to the 4.
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Again, the center judge is not supposed to hear from the booth. But he can hear from other refs on the field.
 
#105
#105
barney said:
which player signaled? do we have a #? I don't see it at all when I watch the replay. Just see Dee putting his hands to the side.
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I haven't seen a replay that shows the number. But it's the second guy from the right of the formation, and he's offset from the front line. I've tried to look at other shots of the kickoff return team, and if the same guys were used every time I think it might have been #22 Telander.
 
#106
#106
ok idk why the mods are taking down my last post but the video shows how absolutely egregious the call was. The frontline player is not at fault here, it looks like he just threw his hand up a little high as he was taking off to run. No ref in his right mind would call this a fair catch lol
 
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#108
#108
VFL-82-JP said:
I think I found it.

Here's a screen capture of the kickoff. Take note of the fella up front circled in orange:

View attachment 589554

And here's another screen shot, just a second or two later:

View attachment 589555
See how that player has his hand up above his head?

Here's a close-up, though it's not very high definition:

View attachment 589557
I don't really see him WAVING his arm, he just kind of seems to put it up in the air, maybe one single wave, then back down. Watch it yourself to see what you think:



Go to about 1:01:36 to start it, the hand over the head comes at 1:01:39. Almost immediately, they switch to a different camera from a new angle, but you can for just an instant still see the lad with his hand over his head from the new perspective before it pans away to the end zone.

Is this a penny-ante call on the refs part? Yes, I think so. I think this was the first harbinger of a "new mindset" by the referee crew after the half, who seem to have gotten some instructions to tilt the playing field in Bama's favor. It's not just a conspiracy theory; it's a conspiracy theory with repeated and fairly blatant evidence.

On the other hand, I have no idea why our player would do that. Not smart.

[Can't tell which player it is, too blurry to read jersey numbers.]

So. This was not about Dee Williams at all. Rather, one of the lads up front who inexplicably waved with his hand above his head at the wrong time.

Anyway, it is what it is. This isn't the reason we loss, though it contributed right alongside 50 other key mistakes.

We'll get them next year. For now, let's shift focus to the next game of this season.

Go Vols!
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Maybe already posted but that was it. Heup said a front line guy.
 
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#109
#109
Never thought I'd see a day where something so basic is being made so complicated. I can see a deep receiver other than the player who catches the ball getting flagged for trying to fool the kick coverage team but a front line player? That's hogwash. How is that going to fool anyone? How is that going to influence and official? And while we're speaking about fair catches, this "new" and "modern" version of anything resembling a wave higher than the shoulder is considered a signal? Come on. Kids are taught in pee wee ball how to signal fair catch. In my 7 decades it's been this way. No idea when or how it became anything else. This world is insane.
 
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#110
#110
CAVPUT said:
Never thought I'd see a day where something so basic is being made so complicated. I can see a deep receiver other than the player who catches the ball getting flagged for trying to fool the kick coverage team but a front line player? That's hogwash. How is that going to fool anyone? How is that going to influence and official? And while we're speaking about fair catches, this "new" and "modern" version of anything resembling a wave higher than the shoulder is considered a signal? Come on. Kids are taught in pee wee ball how to signal fair catch. In my 7 decades it's been this way. No idea when or how it became anything else. This world is insane.
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It was a BS call. In real time his hand was barely extended and you could barely see it. I watched the play 4 or 5 times today and never even saw the hand up in real time. The Cbs crew never saw it even with dozens of camera angles and a producer lol. This was a complete and total screw job.
 
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#111
#111
barney said:
It was a BS call. In real time his hand was barely extended and you could barely see it. I watched the play 4 or 5 times today and never even saw the hand up in real time. The Cbs crew never saw it even with dozens of camera angles and a producer lol. This was a complete and total screw job.
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I don't disagree. It went over his head, but I don't see how it was a fair catch call. I also hate the disconcerting signals call that UT got, but they have been calling that crap all year. It's apparently a point of emphasis.
 
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#112
#112
bamawriter said:
I don't disagree. It went over his head, but I don't see how it was a fair catch call. I also hate the disconcerting signals call that UT got, but they have been calling that crap all year. It's apparently a point of emphasis.
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Right, apparently defenses can't clap anymore? That call is just too subjective.
 
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#113
#113
bamawriter said:
It's not a penalty that is marked off by yardage. Because someone other than the signaler touched the ball first, by rule the ball was spotted where it was first touched. I'm not sure what he was trying to do, and I'm sure it wasn't a fair catch signal, but the second guy from the right on UT's front line did raise his hand over his head right after the ball was kicked.
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It looks a little odd, but it’s even more strange that a ref would even think to consider that a fair catch signal.
 
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#114
#114
bamawriter said:
I don't disagree. It went over his head, but I don't see how it was a fair catch call. I also hate the disconcerting signals call that UT got, but they have been calling that crap all year. It's apparently a point of emphasis.
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Yeah, I’ve seen that call a lot. Here’s an idea. If clapping causes problems, make the offense use voice or silent counts.
 
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#116
#116
GAVol said:
Yeah, I’ve seen that call a lot. Here’s an idea. If clapping causes problems, make the offense use voice or silent counts.
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It's one thing if an edge rusher claps in an o-lineman's face. But an LB clapping to get his teammate's attention? That's just nuts.
 
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#117
#117
I think it's a bad rule which requires discretion and common sense. They can choose to ignore obvious non-fair catch intending motions that have no effect on the play from guys on the front line like they should, or they can choose to really screw somebody when they KNOW that player was not attempting to signal a fair catch and still be in the clear technically. I understand it if it's clearly an effort to fake a fair catch, but this was obviously not that which should communicate to everyone how bad that call was. The rule needs to be changed so as to designate a very specific and obvious signal motion from a non-receiving player in order to call that penalty. Intent needs to be obvious and proven to show a deliberate specific signal and not just literally anything above the shoulders a guy might accidentally do. Intent is important. In no way was JT trying to signal a fair catch and they know it. Shame.
 
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#118
#118
wmcovol said:
That crew was looking for tacky $h!t to call on Tennessee… that call, the delay of game on the defense, the “holding” on Jeudy-Lolly.

I don’t believe for a second the refs are told to favor Alabama but they are completely intimidated by Saban and his influence in the SEC. The SEC commissioner desperately wants at least 1 team in the CFP. Vols were just “collateral damage” on the road to get a 1 loss Alabama to Atlanta vs an unbeaten Georgia.
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Georgia will not be unbeaten.
 
#120
#120
JCHateSteve said:
I could almost see the call if Dee made that motion. But he didn't. The other returner was probably signaling that the ball wasn't coming to him. Whatever it was, it obviously wasn't a fair catch call and I've never seen a fair catch called like that.

The clapping call is something else I've never seen. I've never seen that penalty called that way. It happened during a string of calls that seemed intent on keeping Bama in the game.

The ghost review, after an obvious first down by Milton, that even CBS's biased announcers couldn't ignore, was another example. It sure looked like the officials were trying create an opportunity for Bama to substitute.

All these are perfect examples of SEC refs working at changing momentum in games IMO.

I don't know why Tennessee is thier punching bag this year. But I've never seen it this bad.
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This has been 100% of our games this year. Even the scrub games have had multiple head scratchers. I wonder if there are forces of power at work for certain outcomes? Not just UT.
When this much money is riding, the corrupt will stop at nothing.
 
#121
#121
livefaith said:
This has been 100% of our games this year. Even the scrub games have had multiple head scratchers. I wonder if there are forces of power at work for certain outcomes? Not just UT.
When this much money is riding, the corrupt will stop at nothing.
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I don't know what the source of it is. All I know is Tennessee started winning again and it got worse. That's the opposite of what was supposed to happen.
 
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#122
#122
What’s really confusing is that it was replay that made the call (same replay that put UT in the hole on every replay) and the “signal” was made while the ball was still rising past the player that made the signal who it’d be impossible to field the ball…..but this same replay official doesn’t see the Bama player’s mule kick after the TD
 
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#123
#123
This makes me think somebody spotted this move on one of the earlier kickoffs and said something to an official.

 
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