120k a year isn’t enough

#176
#176
McDad said:
I don't dispute some (many?) companies are top heavy and overpaying for their team. I disagree it is done so at the expense of wage earners.
Your small firm is willing for an attorney to make 1M a year as long as they generate 3M in billings. That attorney is proving their worth. People in the corporate structure have to prove the same eventually.
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No, they don't. As long as the compensation committee goes along with them, they don't have to prove ****. And shareholders won't rock the boat as long as the stock price is moving up.
 
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#177
#177
McDad said:
I don't dispute some (many?) companies are top heavy and overpaying for their team. I disagree it is done so at the expense of wage earners.
Your small firm is willing for an attorney to make 1M a year as long as they generate 3M in billings. That attorney is proving their worth. People in the corporate structure have to prove the same eventually.
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But the non partners all gets a piece of the pie, as well. As the overall pie increases, the amount that is allocated to pay the associates, assistants, paralegals etc is expanded and those monies distributed. When we first started we had a very low paid staff... Now? It's been close to a decade since an employee has left for higher wages.
 
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#183
#183
ClearwaterVol said:
I must have missed the spot where upper management agreed to take a massive pay cut for a lean year. Typically, they just fire (lay off) a bunch of worker bees and head back to the beach house.
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Bonuses typically are tied to performance.

Did you have a point?

Or you just like referring to the labor as animals?
 
#185
#185
SpaceCoastVol said:
No, they don't. As long as the compensation committee goes along with them, they don't have to prove ****. And shareholders won't rock the boat as long as the stock price is moving up.
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I may be wrong here but I believe expenses (including payroll, salary, bonuses) affect stock price when the expenses are out of range.
 
#186
#186
ClearwaterVol said:
But the non partners all gets a piece of the pie, as well. As the overall pie increases, the amount that is allocated to pay the associates, assistants, paralegals etc is expanded and those monies distributed. When we first started we had a very low paid staff... Now? It's been close to a decade since an employee has left for higher wages.
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I think the way you approach payroll to the hourly staff is the smart move. I think the employee/employer relationship should be win/win.

But that approach is not what everyone does nor is it something that scales effectively across all companies or industries.
 
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#188
#188
McDad said:
I may be wrong here but I believe expenses (including payroll, salary, bonuses) affect stock price when the expenses are out of range.
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Maybe, maybe not. It really depends more on the expectations of the so called "analysts". The key being the word expectations. The more i invest, the more i realize how much voo doo the whole thing is. I reality, stock price has very little to do with the actual value of the company. Site it's an indicator, but it isn't directly tied to it.
 
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#190
#190
allvol123 said:
Bonuses typically are tied to performance.

Did you have a point?

Or you just like referring to the labor as animals?
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Yeah, I will slow down for you to understand my point. In an off year, upper management just lays off worker bees and still collects the same compensation because the bottom line remains unchanged but the revenue and health of the company has taken a hit.
 
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#191
#191
ClearwaterVol said:
Yeah, I will slow down for you to understand my point. In an off year, upper management just lays off worker bees and still collects the same compensation because the bottom line remains unchanged but the revenue and health of the company has taken a hit.
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Typically they don’t collect the same compensation if they have bonuses. So you might want to slow it down for yourself.
 
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#192
#192
SpaceCoastVol said:
Maybe, maybe not. It really depends more on the expectations of the so called "analysts". The key being the word expectations. The more i invest, the more i realize how much voo doo the whole thing is. I reality, stock price has very little to do with the actual value of the company. Site it's an indicator, but it isn't directly tied to it.
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There is evidence of your point all around. I think Amazon is one such stock.

But isn't it also true that a mismanaged company is destined for problems if the mismanagement is chronic enough, long enough, and severe enough?
 
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#193
#193
SpaceCoastVol said:
Maybe, maybe not. It really depends more on the expectations of the so called "analysts". The key being the word expectations. The more i invest, the more i realize how much voo doo the whole thing is. I reality, stock price has very little to do with the actual value of the company. Site it's an indicator, but it isn't directly tied to it.
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Sentiment is the main driver of stock prices over the short to intermediate term. Longer-term (10+ years) the company actually does need to ultimately perform well; you can't ******** forever. At some point its performance will be tied to earnings. But can you can ******** for a long time, much longer than most people think.

As @McDad said, AMZN is a textbook example of things. AMZN bullshitted for basically 2 decades, taking everything that would have hit the bottom line as earnings and plowing it into R&D. Bezos even started taking heat for it; investors wanted some ROI via buybacks or a dividend. His massive R&D spend over years ended up paying off and now they print money. The stock price today is driven by earnings, since they are actually profitable now, but for many years the stock price was driven off of sentiment and hype that ended up being proven correct. It isn't always proven correct though.
 
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#194
#194
ClearwaterVol said:
But the companies have chosen to keep a larger and larger portion of the pie for the executives and shareholders. At some point the workers are going to say f#ck this sh!t. It seems that many companies have lost site of a basic tenet of business - focus on growing revenue. Many businesses these days simply look to cut costs instead of fixing the issues and they typically only cut costs from one side of the table.
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Your statement couldn't be any more true. I used to call managers that decided to grow profits by cutting expenses denominator managers. They didn't worry about the income side of the equation, only cutting staff, maintenance, benefits etc. These people always left the company in much worse shape than when they found it.
 
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#196
#196
ClearwaterVol said:
Yeah, I will slow down for you to understand my point. In an off year, upper management just lays off worker bees and still collects the same compensation because the bottom line remains unchanged but the revenue and health of the company has taken a hit.
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In your hypothetical, you're outlining a company dealing with a temporary slow down by only hitting the 'worker bees'. I am thinking of 'worker bees' as the employees who manufacture, distribute, or service the goods produced. If the slow down is not unique to the company, I don't see why the company would continue to manufacture, or distribute the level of goods as it did prior to the slow down.

Also, I wonder what the layoff distribution between white collar and blue collar employees actually is during a downtown.
 
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#197
#197
allvol123 said:
Typically they don’t collect the same compensation if they have bonuses. So you might want to slow it down for yourself.
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If bonuses are tied to margin and they are cutting costs by laying people off then they really aren’t taking a hit in down years.

That said, I think executives largely get a bad rap for doing a difficult job. People act as if these guys/gals are largely unqualified and anybody can step in and do it. The hours and stress these people work under are no joke and you can bet the board will kick them to the curb quick if they dont perform.
 
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#198
#198
rjd970 said:
If bonuses are tied to margin and they are cutting costs by laying people off then they really aren’t taking a hit in down years.

That said, I think executives largely get a bad rap for doing a difficult job. People act as if these guys/gals are largely unqualified and anybody can step in and do it. The hours and stress these people work under are no joke and you can bet the board will kick them to the curb quick if they dont perform.
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I do enjoy watching an attorney give them hell though.

I guess if a client in a civil lawsuit gets awarded 100 million or 10 million, it is irrelevant, cause the attorney gets the same payout no matter the amount?????
 
#199
#199
Everyone tends to forget that every business is in business to make money for the stockholders, not to provide jobs. If you treat your employees like **** your business will suffer and eventually fold because you are only as good as your people.
 
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#200
#200
hog88 said:
Everyone tends to forget that every business is in business to make money for the stockholders, not to provide jobs. If you treat your employees like **** your business will suffer and eventually fold because you are only as good as your people.
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This. It has been made to sound evil, but if you take a holistic approach then everything lines up with that end in mind and is done well.
 
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