120k a year isn’t enough

[NEO]

I've seena number of news reports that one reason people are reluctant work traditional jobs at traditional wages is that they are opening up their own home businesses. Enough commuting and making others rich. I think there is some truth in those reports

We were locked out of our office when Covid hit and it triggered an unoccupied clause that allowed me to terminate the lease penalty free.

We now all work from home and my employees love it. I also save thousands on rent now which I put bsck into salaries. Just a win, win.

 

[NorthDallas40]

People leave their house for work at 7 and get home at 9 and call it a 14 hour work day. It's nonsense.

So no. The weeks I’m referring to are travel weeks. You’re living in a hotel and you’re 5 minutes from work.

 

[hog88]

Then his math is wrong.

12-16 hours x 7 days per week = 98 hours.

40 hours x $30 + 48 hours x $45 = $3,360 per week. 176k per year.

Since they are union they probably get overtime after 8 hours and double time after 50 or 60 in a week, so it’s even more.

 

[McDad]

Since they are union they probably get overtime after 8 hours and double time after 50 or 60 in a week, so it’s even more.

Is that standard???

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You poor dumb bastard. On flight test 12 hr days 6 days a week are the norm with some days longer. So 70-80 is routine. But that 90+ almost killed me and I was in my mid 30’s.

I was nonexempt. They wouldn't have gotten anybody to stay that long without overtime.

 

[hog88]

Is that standard???

I don’t know if it’s standard but that’s the case with most of our clients with union labor.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I was nonexempt. They wouldn't have gotten anybody to stay that long without overtime.

Ok I’ll buy that.

 

[rjd970]

Most technical managers started in engineering because frankly they wouldn’t garner any respect without a technical degree. They at least need to be able to speak the lingo.

And I won’t go into the bad engineers go into management. It’s a whole different skill set. One I don’t have and I would suck as a manager. I enjoy working for managers that respect my skills and garner my respect of their skills. At the end of the day we both want the same thing. We just both contribute in different ways and need to play to each other’s strengths.

I have about 20 years experience now with undergraduate and graduate engineering degrees. Been in management for the last 7 years. After seeing the corporate sausage made, there are days I miss being able to sit in my cubicle and not have anyone bother me while I do long division.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I have about 20 years experience now with undergraduate and graduate engineering degrees. Been in management for the last 7 years. After seeing the corporate sausage made, there are days I miss being able to sit in my cubicle and not have anyone bother me while I do long division.

I’d totally suck as a manager. It’s a completely different skill set. It requires juggling many balls in the air at once. I can do about two and then my brain overloads. I’m just not put together mentally to do it. I appreciate a good manager who can do it and whom will leave me alone to focus deeply on the one or two things I need to be doing.

We had a young female engineer whom we tried to show just how good of a manger she could have been. And she would have been very good. But she had her heart set on being an alpha nerd… but didn’t have the skills. She wound up leaving the company because she couldn’t accept being told she simply wasn’t a very talented engineer. She had amazing organizational skills though as well as the gift of gab.

 

[walkenvol]

What about countries such as Germany, where the culture is highly collaborative and management expects and respects input from a committee comprised of workers?

Who sold you this bill of goods? Ask the folks who build BMW’s in South Carolina if the German management gives a shat what they think

 

[Vol423]

Who sold you this bill of goods? Ask the folks who build BMW’s in South Carolina if the German management gives a shat what they think

Germans, by default, assume that all Americans are know-nothing idiots. They only care what Germans think. They even think they know more about the American market than Americans do despite the fact that, in many industries, the markets operate completely differently.

 

[C-south]

Who sold you this bill of goods? Ask the folks who build BMW’s in South Carolina if the German management gives a shat what they think

The turnover rate is extremely high. They went from direct hire to temp to hire awhile back. At one point years ago they were offering packages to some people to get them to leave. Lots of workman’s comp claims. There are maybe a handful of jobs that some people have stuck it out for like body shop and paint shop but anything related to assembly everyone hates it. Many of their suppliers are now in the area and nobody likes working for them either.

 

[Volaholic320]

I've heard these "stats" from my own employer when they were trying to discredit union employees. First, anyone making $30/hour isn't making $120k a year without working a bunch of overtime. Secondly, the company is probably including their inflated cost of benefits in that number. If Kellogg's doesn't want to pay any more money, let them move their plant to China and make their cereal there. Unions don't usually go on strike for no reason.

Ugh, china Kelloggs would be bad

 

[VolStrom]

Ugh, china Kelloggs would be bad

There is a reason they still make it here. Cereal is not a hammer or a rake, it's food. Americans won't even buy dog food from China, much less something they put in their own bodies. Kellogg's is kind of over a barrel, and I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Who sold you this bill of goods? Ask the folks who build BMW’s in South Carolina if the German management gives a shat what they think

"They" are not domestic German workers. Completely different.

 

[AM64]

Are there any Engineers in any field who still enjoy the work after 3 or 4 decades?

The technical work - absolutely. The working conditions - specifically dealing with administration and management - hell no. There's simply too much micromanagement, too much ego up the food chain, and too many short sighted, short term decisions to meet goals for bonuses. At least that was the way it was when I retired years ago, and it doesn't sound like it has improved. Although Dave seems reasonable, and he has forklifts for entertainment ...

 

[AM64]

We would need more “tracks”. Some people here aren’t or shouldn’t be employable.

I started HS in Bangor, ME in 1960, and there were multiple tracks dedicated to preparation for careers and education beyond HS if those careers called for it. There were also different levels in some courses. For example, people from different tracks might be in the same English or math course, and some courses were considered advanced to accommodate students who could handle the accelerated pace. It made far more sense than what's going on today in education. When I moved to Nashville as a sophomore, the advanced courses were there, but the tracks to specific careers were more like suggestions. I believe there were also two different diplomas awarded - one may have been "academic" and not sure what the other was named - that was about the courses taken and the number of courses.

 

[tnmarktx]

Is that standard???

Nope.

 

[SuzyVol]

I don’t think they’d go that high but yes if they get me back in contracting it’s gonna take lawyer money.

If you do decide to do contracting or consulting, do not undervalue what you have to offer. A lot of companies are ultra-focused on headcount, but don't think twice about spending on contractors and consultants.

 

[WBO]

Some of you guys hate unions too much you can't see anything but your dislike. Of course you ignore that unions in the 30's and 40's basically created the middle class, but no, you like to hate more.

As pointed out, at $30 an hour a 2000 hour work year adds up to $60k. One of the reasons for the strike is that under current work rules Kelloggs can require that the employees work overtime and on the weekends. Reports have employees going 6 months without a day off. There are stories about employees being required to work up to 70 hours a week. (It seems that after the expense of healthcare and retirement plans, it is cheaper to pay overtime than it is to hire additional employees.) That's how they can get to $120k a year, the additional 30 hours at $45 an hour adds up to $1350 a week easily going over $120k a year.

But do you want to work 7 days a week, 10 hours a day? Cut it to 20 overtime hours a week, that is still over 8 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Kelloggs is also trying to shift more heath insurance cost onto the employees, so what looks like a nice pay increase is instead a reduction in actual income. All while the compensation of the CEO has gone up multiple times to what is now $12 million a year..

 

[tnmarktx]

If people want to specific reason to hate the union from this article, hate the international that was willing to have a tiered pay system that allowed new workers to come in at lower pay and less benefits. This is quite simply the most anti union thing to do and they deserve criticism for that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yet your company wouldn't hesitate to pay a field service engineer $400-$500 an hour to do what you can do. The stupidity of management is astounding.

Hmmm... that's interesting. I haven't seen rates that high, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if someone was charging that. I've seen $150-200/hr, however.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We have very few experienced good ones left. Very thin on the technical manager Staff. And I expect it to worsen in the coming year

Demographics. I've been saying this for a decade. Demographics are going to be the main driver of this country over the next two decades. Fewer people coming behind to back fill these spots that the Boomers are leaving. And even if Biden (or even Trump for that matter) did come up with a infrastructure plan that actually did address our infrastructure needs, the skilled labor and engineering talent needed for all of this is likely not going to be there.

 

[VolStrom]

Hmmm... that's interesting. I haven't seen rates that high, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if someone was charging that. I've seen $150-200/hr, however.

When I was still working we paid GE, Rockwell & Siemens service engineers $250/hr for straight time and $375 for anything past 8 hours in a day. Work on the weekends was double time on Sundays.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

As pointed out, at $30 an hour a 2000 hour work year adds up to $60k. One of the reasons for the strike is that under current work rules Kelloggs can require that the employees work overtime and on the weekends. Reports have employees going 6 months without a day off. There are stories about employees being required to work up to 70 hours a week. (It seems that after the expense of healthcare and retirement plans, it is cheaper to pay overtime than it is to hire additional employees.) That's how they can get to $120k a year, the additional 30 hours at $45 an hour adds up to $1350 a week easily going over $120k a year.

I've said this before. I think when I first noticed it about 3 years ago, it was done willingly by the company to save money, as you are saying here. However, I think what has happened is that now things have gotten so out of hand with finding labor, that they are using overtime as a necessity to keep the company rolling.