120k a year isn’t enough

[Rasputin_Vol]

When I was still working we paid GE, Rockwell & Siemens service engineers $250/hr for straight time and $375 for anything past 8 hours in a day. Work on the weekends was double time on Sundays.

Interesting. I guess I can see that considering the amount of overhead they probably have.

I wonder out of that $250 and hour, how much do the engineers and technicians get?

 

[0nelilreb]

Is that standard???

Depends on the contract and what you are able to negotiate, There is no “ standard “ unless you are working under a master contract like the auto workers do .

I hate getting into union arguments / threads because my entire family has worked for unions and without , I have been in management in a zero union tolerance company and before that I worked in a union facility on the floor . I was on the contract negotiating committee… I will say that everyone needs to see what goes on behind closed doors when trying to negotiate a contract for 400 people in different age groups . It will change your perspective regardless of your stance , Pro or against .

 

[VolStrom]

Interesting. I guess I can see that considering they amount of overhead they probably have.

I wonder out of that $250 and hour, how much do the engineers and technicians get?

The guy that I used to work with the most had his own private airplane and a 45 foot boat. His wife was a veterinarian as well, so I'm sure between the two of them they were pulling in some major coin.

 

[AM64]

Interesting. I guess I can see that considering they amount of overhead they probably have.

I wonder out of that $250 and hour, how much do the engineers and technicians get?

You can bet they don't get the $250/hr. The companies I worked for charged the customer far more than what we were paid (even including benefits and reasonable overhead); my pay didn't vary depending on whether I was in the office, at a site in the US, or at a site overseas. I can't remember how expenses were charged, but you can believe the company didn't lose there either. One nice benefit in my first job was that if you were gone for an extended period, the company would pay for your wife to visit and her expenses while there ... mine got a couple of very nice extended trips to Japan, a decent one to LA, and the middle of nowhere between Toledo and Cleveland during one of the coldest winters on record.

 

[tntar heel]

You can bet they don't get the $250/hr. The companies I worked for charged the customer far more than what we were paid (even including benefits and reasonable overhead); my pay didn't vary depending on whether I was in the office, at a site in the US, or at a site overseas. I can't remember how expenses were charged, but you can believe the company didn't lose there either. One nice benefit in my first job was that if you were gone for an extended period, the company would pay for your wife to visit and her expenses while there ... mine got a couple of very nice extended trips to Japan, a decent one to LA, and the middle of nowhere between Toledo and Cleveland during one of the coldest winters on record.

Davis-Bessey? Lake Erie is a beautiful winter destination in January.... for Eskimo's.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

Everyone in here is comparing their wages to other occupations. That is wrong. Kelloggs is making record profits and looking to cut wages. Why is the question? Apparently, the company had been doing something right and now they are simply trying to take more from the bottom. The guys earning 120k per year are doing it by working 7 days per week.

 

[WBO]

I've said this before. I think when I first noticed it about 3 years ago, it was done willingly by the company to save money, as you are saying here. However, I think what has happened is that now things have gotten so out of hand with finding labor, that they are using overtime as a necessity to keep the company rolling.

The operative phrase is "you think." After 35 years in business and advising business owners there is one basic issue with hiring people. Are you offering a rate of pay that will bring excellent people to your company? If so, can you make a profit paying that wage? If not, start looking for a new line of business. All the other tricks, like making your people work overtime, are temporary fixes. And hiring substandard people because they will work cheap is the worst possible solution since your customers will be the first to notice and they will leave.

The pandemic has actually given people time to look at their work careers and apparently many of them are not going back to their old jobs because they just didn't enjoy what they were doing for the pay they were getting.

I bartended when I was in undergrad. Great job for a college student, if you can manage your hours, but I wouldn't do anything in the restaurant industry anymore. Average pay sucks, long hours and people are just too mean these days.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I don't know how to relate to people like this:

Trevor Bidelman is a fourth-generation Kellogg’s worker. His great-grandpa, his grandpa and grandma, and his dad all worked at the storied cereal maker’s Battle Creek, Michigan, plant, making breakfast staples like Rice Krispies and Frosted Flakes.
Now Bidelman is on strike with 1,400 other Kellogg’s workers at four plants, and wonders if it will be a job worth taking when his own four kids grow up.

I'm sure there is a something-phobic we can call you then.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

What is 64.6 hours per week? Not everyone that works in a union plant makes the same wages. Production workers usually make the least, and crafts like mechanics and electricians make the most. Someone that is in the crafts might work 1/2 as much overtime to make the same as someone in production.

Sorry, but that is the benefit of having a union and a contract. A contract is signed by management as well, and they know what is in it. If they choose to staff/operate the business in such a manner that some workers are able to take advantage of those provisions and make money, then good for those workers. All those C suite inhabitants have contracts that allow them to manipulate such things as stock prices to their advantage and nobody on this particular thread says much if anything about that being unfair or ridiculous. Just as an example in my own situation, there are ways to use the contract to one's advantage which allow some of my copilots to make way more in a year than I do. There have been times when in a cockpit of 4 pilots, I was the lowest paid, and two of the guys are junior to me.... and we are flying the same exact trip.

 

[allvol123]

Everyone in here is comparing their wages to other occupations. That is wrong. Kelloggs is making record profits and looking to cut wages. Why is the question? Apparently, the company had been doing something right and now they are simply trying to take more from the bottom. The guys earning 120k per year are doing it by working 7 days per week.

You are comparing their record profits (past tense) versus what they are trying to do for the future? Which likely includes price increases from all their suppliers across the board?

 

[McDad]

Everyone in here is comparing their wages to other occupations. That is wrong. Kelloggs is making record profits and looking to cut wages. Why is the question? Apparently, the company had been doing something right and now they are simply trying to take more from the bottom. The guys earning 120k per year are doing it by working 7 days per week.

Ideally, a business should be in a win/win relationship with employees. But that is a choice a company makes. A company should not be forced to overpay for resources. I wouldn't pay more than what is market value for a gallon of gas under normal circumstances. A company shouldn't be forced to pay more than what an hour of labor is worth at market value either. The company doesn't exist to ensure adequate pay to people.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

You are comparing their record profits (past tense) versus what they are trying to do for the future? Which likely includes price increases from all their suppliers across the board?

Did they pay the employees a bonus for the record profits or just enjoy them? Employees should profit from the success of the company.

 

[McDad]

Did they pay the employees a bonus for the record profits or just enjoy them? Employees should profit from the success of the company.

They do. It is called payroll, and job security.

Very few employees do well when a company fails.

 

[tnmarktx]

When I was still working we paid GE, Rockwell & Siemens service engineers $250/hr for straight time and $375 for anything past 8 hours in a day. Work on the weekends was double time on Sundays.

I know a Rockwell guy that could literally replace 10 engineers in most companies paying him their salary and the company would be better off. The best PLC programmer I've ever seen.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

They do. It is called payroll, and job security.

Very few employees do well when a company fails.

But the companies have chosen to keep a larger and larger portion of the pie for the executives and shareholders. At some point the workers are going to say f#ck this sh!t. It seems that many companies have lost site of a basic tenet of business - focus on growing revenue. Many businesses these days simply look to cut costs instead of fixing the issues and they typically only cut costs from one side of the table.

 

[hog88]

But the companies have chosen to keep a larger and larger portion of the pie for the executives and shareholders. At some point the workers are going to say f#ck this sh!t. It seems that many companies have lost site of a basic tenet of business - focus on growing revenue. Many businesses these days simply look to cut costs instead of fixing the issues and they typically only cut costs from one side of the table.

And those companies will eventually go out of business.

 

[McDad]

But the companies have chosen to keep a larger and larger portion of the pie for the executives and shareholders. At some point the workers are going to say f#ck this sh!t. It seems that many companies have lost site of a basic tenet of business - focus on growing revenue. Many businesses these days simply look to cut costs instead of fixing the issues and they typically only cut costs from one side of the table.

The workers can, and should say, F this S. As a resource becomes more scarce it increases in value. Human resources are no different.
It isn't up to you or me to tell a company how they should manage compensation and dividends to anyone associated with that company.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

The workers can, and should say, F this S. As a resource becomes more scarce it increases in value. Human resources are no different.
It isn't up to you or me to tell a company how they should manage compensation and dividends to anyone associated with that company.

I am not telling them how to manage their resources. I simply have less than no sympathy for the company when fed up workers demand changes or in this case the status quo.

 

[McDad]

I am not telling them how to manage their resources. I simply have less than no sympathy for the company when fed up workers demand changes or in this case the status quo.

And I separate emotions from valuing resources.

Think about this, should the Judge and the janitor at the courthouse make the same? Are you only buying products from companies who have "living wages" as part of their practiced corporate values? The answers are no. And I think the reason the answers are no is self evident.

 

[McDad]

Should Kelloggs overpay for corn and wheat (relative to market price) to make sure farmers and farm hands make a living wage?

Should farmers overpay John Deere for equipment and have the surcharge make sure Deere employees make a living wage?

Should Deere overpay for Steel to make sure Steel workers make a living wage?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

And I separate emotions from valuing resources.

Think about this, should the Judge and the janitor at the courthouse make the same? Are you only buying products from companies who have "living wages" as part of their practiced corporate values? The answers are no. And I think the reason the answers are no is self evident.

The issue as I see it is that management has overvalued its contribution to the process for decades at the expense of its workers because it can. The issue is coming to a head. Companies that value its workers fairly should have no difficulty moving forward. Kelloggs has enjoyed record profits and is now asking its employees to take a pay cut.

I can liken the situation to situation at my firm. In typical small firms, the associate attorney is supposed to bill enough to generate revenue sufficient that 1/3 of his revenue pays his salary and benefits, 1/3 of his salary goes towards the general overhead of the firm and 1/3 to the partners. You don't make partner until you can prove that you can grow the pie (bring in enough new revenue that making you a partner does not decrease the other partners income). It is always about growing the pie. Associates don't come to the partners and say, "Hey promote me because I will cut the salaries of all the assistants and paralegals to pay for my raise."

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Should Kelloggs overpay for corn and wheat (relative to market price) to make sure farmers and farm hands make a living wage?

Should farmers overpay John Deere for equipment and have the surcharge make sure Deere employees make a living wage?

Should Deere overpay for Steel to make sure Steel workers make a living wage?

The 'living wage' argument is ridiculous. All it is is a justification for socialistic policy.

 

[McDad]

The issue as I see it is that management has overvalued its contribution to the process for decades at the expense of its workers because it can. The issue is coming to a head. Companies that value its workers fairly should have no difficulty moving forward. Kelloggs has enjoyed record profits and is now asking its employees to take a pay cut.

I can liken the situation to situation at my firm. In typical small firms, the associate attorney is supposed to bill enough to generate revenue sufficient that 1/3 of his revenue pays his salary and benefits, 1/3 of his salary goes towards the general overhead of the firm and 1/3 to the partners. You don't make partner until you can prove that you can grow the pie (bring in enough new revenue that making you a partner does not decrease the other partners income). It is always about growing the pie. Associates don't come to the partners and say, "Hey promote me because I will cut the salaries of all the assistants and paralegals to pay for my raise."

I don't dispute some (many?) companies are top heavy and overpaying for their team. I disagree it is done so at the expense of wage earners.
Your small firm is willing for an attorney to make 1M a year as long as they generate 3M in billings. That attorney is proving their worth. People in the corporate structure have to prove the same eventually.

 

[McDad]

The 'living wage' argument is ridiculous. All it is is a justification for socialistic policy.

I don' think the "living wage" POV is ridiculous. I think it is forced into the conversation when it should be encouraged. Employees who make a goodly amount of money is something we should celebrate.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I don' think the "living wage" POV is ridiculous. I think it is forced into the conversation when it should be encouraged. Employees who make a goodly amount of money is something we should celebrate.

it seems to me that you are talking about two different things there.